That is correct. But I don't live in Saudi or Iran either. I live in Dubai. The reason I love it here is because my beliefs are respected. In Saudi, I wouldn't be able to party in private, I wouldn't be able to hold my gf's hand in public. In Dubai, I am. But in Dubai, homosexuality remains forbidden. Not that you wouldn't bump into them at the clubs, at university, etc... But they don't put their homosexuality on display, and if they do, there will be consequences depending on their actions. Everyone respects each other's beliefs and that's not impossible, contrary to popular belief. Should I march into Saudi Arabia holding my gf's hand or should I stay in Dubai? Easy decision.
Likewise, some people find it more difficult to quit alcohol or smoking or drugs. I'll believe it if it ever becomes a proven fact. Til then, do you really blame me for believing what my religion says rather than the more popular belief?
lol, you've been dying to get in on this... If gays were scientifically proven to be genetic, I would be very lost and seek guidance. I'll be completely honest about that. A lot of my views would change. Surely, some people will choose denial and claim that the "results are fixed." I will, no doubt, make sure there is no bias involved before making any decisions. Others will begin changing their path. As a whole I can't guess how the entire Muslim faith would react seeing as nothing this radical has ever happened. Here's how to look at it DaDa... if Allah created the things in the Qura'an, then it would be perfect and not need to be changed, right? I guess that's why you can't agree with the "it doesn't change" theory. Because I know from previous conversations that you don't believe divine beings created any of the religious books (as far as I recall). I don't know if you wanted me to comment on the pork thing but honestly I haven't looked into eating pork and have never had it in my life. I don't know how healthy/unhealthy it is compared to chicken, fish or beef. That's not because I blindly consider pork inedible, it's because I personally can't fathom the thoguht of eating pork knowing what I know about it, just like I can't stand the odor of seafood so I never eat that either. Is there some standard meats go by to determine which is cleaner than the other? That would be interesting to read. Good beef bacon kicks ass though. I've never seen beef bacon anywhere else in the world I've been to, but in Dubai most restaurants serve beef bacon and I love it.
I'm Muslim. You would think I understand criticism more than ANYONE else in the world, no? lol I'm being critisized and I'm replying. It doesn't end with taking a shot Sam. This is an EXCHANGE, and that's what we're doing. I respectfully disagree with your opinions then. I don't question why you ALLOW homosexuality in your country. Don't force your opinions on us. We don't agree with what you do there, and we don't try to force it down your throats. You do what you do there and we'll do what we do here. If we can't all reach an agreement, which clearly we can't, based on our beliefs, then people will have to take sides. It would be nice if everybody could live happily together. But I'm getting the impression your mindset is "everyone live in peace and harmony OR ELSE" which really, in the end, means everyone just shuts up and no one is happy.
You REALLY didn't get this answer from reading my posts? Sorry, maybe I'm not being coherent. - I know there is more evidence supporting the genetic thing than otherwise. - But I also know that it is not overwhelming evidence, not at all. - Therefore, I'm inclined to stick with my belief based on my religion.. that homosexuality is not genetic. As for detail, there's no details about genetics. It clearly states what it thinks about homosexuality, what must happen to those who engage in it, what they will face in the hereafter, what conditions apply for it to be prosecuted, and that it is a sin and forbidden. Should the Prophet have been given DNA samples? Should he have studied genetics? What were they THINKING.
1) I didnt speculate on why they make the choice. The way I se it, based on my belief that it IS a choice, is that just like someone who commits any other sin, there are many possible reasons behind it, psychological or otherwise. 2) There is research showign that it IS a choice. So yes, based on those researches, there are lots and lots of people who decided "that" one day.
Be logical. God won't consider someting a sin if you are born with it. That's the equivalent of, for argument's sake, Islam saying being black is forbidden or being female is a sin. I understand that you see it that way - condemning something that a person is born with. But could you possibly understand that my opinion differs and I DON'T see it that way, which is where my values stem from? Obviously the source of our disagreement is that I believe Islam is from a divine source and you don't. We're not going to change that here. So thanks for taking time to respond to my posts.
Ok, I can't carry on responding to 8 or 9 people at a time. From now on I'll check back in occasionally and make general replies. Sorry, it's just exhausting replying to so many posts individually.
Fair enough, but isn't it Allah that is guiding the scientists to make discoveries, and advances in medicine and technology? So, if Allah guided scientists discovered that being gay was genetic, how would anyone reconcile that with their faith? As for pork....I understand your position, what is it you know about it that makes it so adhorent to you? DD
You speak here about letting one people choose the way they live, and letting another people live the way they want. If it works for nations why won't it work for homosexuals too? It doesn't hurt you if somebody else is a homosexual. Why lock them up, beat, or kill them? Whether by genetics or choice, why not just let homosexuals be homosexuals without making them pay a penalty to the law. Everyone else who believes it is wrong, can live their life accordingly.
No, I understood completely. I was just commenting that you went from "homosexuality may be a choice" to a much more forceful "it is NOT genetic" as more people had challenged you. That is all. I understand your beliefs and I am not challenging them...I just found it interesting. You completely missed the point of my question and got defensive. All of the religious texts based on the OT pretty much just say homosexuality is a sin. None of them go into real detail. If the Koran doesn't make any extra points about it being against nature or unnatural then it really shouldn't matter to you, as a Muslim, whether homosexuality is a choice or genetic. For you, it would be wrong either way. So why bother with trying to maintain that it is a choice?
The problem with your argument though is that it isn't logical. Does the Qu'ran mention insider stock trading, does the Qu'ran mention internet p*rn? Does Islam consider those things a sin? The problem with saying that "God (as interpretted by the Qu'ran) understood something then it wouldn't / or would be a sin is that then you get stuck with DaDakota's argument and you're going to have to consider everything that we have and know now. I'm not a Muslim but even I would see that as an illogical burden placed upon the Qu'ran. You're free to believe what you want but what you're missing is the fact that there are people who are very religious yet still can't help themselves but be practicing homosexuals. You're argument is basically that religion can overrule things and that if people faith's are strong enough. In the case of homosexuality though there are people who though religious still are homosexual. There are people whose faith dictates them not to be homosexual and so they don't act on it but still feel attracted to those of the same gender. Have you considered then that maybe its not a matter of faith. That maybe it is a matter of biology that people will continue to feel they are attracted to those of the same gender even though their faith tells them its wrong? You're accusing everyone else of being intolerant but you're not willing to even consider the other side of the question and the fact that homosexuals exist who practice religions that consider it a sin. As for me considering Islam divine or not doesn't matter to the question. The Qu'ran may very well be divine. I don't know. What I'm looking at is that there are gay Muslims, both who actually engage in homosexual acts and who just are attracted to the same gender, that's not a comment on whether Islam is divinely inspired that is just a statement of fact. So whether the Qu'ran teaches that homosexuality is sinful doesn't prove or disprove whether homosexuality is biologically determined.
I think his point is that there are a lot of Muslim people who do not want to live among homosexuals and that they should have the right to have some place in the world where they can practice their religion and live around other people who also practice it.
Nobody's forcing anything down your throat. Nobody's making you do anything. You expect us to shut up and be quiet about Islam's intolerance of homosexuality. That's obviously not happening. Sorry but I'm not in an islamic country, accordingly I have the right I find islam's intolerance to be as depressing and ridiculous as conservative christian intolerance - as well as accompanied by a good deal of hypocrisy. Now, you can say "I'm being intolerant of intolerance" - so be it.
I for one am appalled. I'm intolerant of those who don't tolerate intolerance. Consider yourself not tolerated.
It could be genetic but it also could be cultural, right? how come there are homo-sexuals in the United States than in a muslim country, such as Iran? really an assumption....curious to know what u guys think
I think it's both genetic and a choice. The vast majority of homosexuals are genetically predisposed to it. There are some who choose to be that way, also. A lot of the younger Americans today don't see being gay as being as much of a scarlet letter as it once was. I believe (not backed up by any science or made up statistics whatsoever) that there is a larger portion of younger (read teen-25 years old) homosexuals that choose to be gay than older homosexuals because for the older homosexuals being gay carries with it some real-life consequences and they grew up in an era where those in their generation viewed them as weird and morally repugnant. There's a lot more acceptance of gays in the younger generation.
