so if a religion is peaceful it must conform to 21st century liberal european standards of whats an acceptable action and what isn't? islamic law dictates that homosexual intercourse is forbidden. it also believes anal is forbidden. it also believe any intercourse outside of marriage is forbidden. however the general rule for conviction on any sex crime is 4 witnesses seeing the act of penetration which is such a high barrier that basically in the privacy of your own home you are allowed to do whatever you want. islamic law has right to privacy. im not advocating it. but i think it'd be nice for people to understand these things before engaging in such debates.
the state does not intrude into a person's private matters. however if these actions are being committed openly (4 people watching) then the state regulates it due to public decency concerns. many things in islamic law are not allowed yet even an 'islamic government' has no business regulating or punishing such actions according to islamic law. basic decency such as treating parents kindly is a requirement of islam. hence treating a parent in a rude manner is forbidden yet the state is not required nor asked to punish the person according to the tradition. god and the state are not one and the same. the state only regulates those actions it deems problematic for the public well being. god however has dictated through the texts those things that are forbidden.
Again, you are basing your argument on the theory that homosexuality is not a choice. Race is not a choice. Homosexuality may be a choice. It is not a fact that homosexuals are born homosexuals. Right now, there is more research showing that it is NOT a choice. But again, not enough for someone to put aside their faith, their religion, not by a LONG shot. So no, it's not the same thing. And no, it is not a religion of peace if peace means you can shove things like this down people's throats. Peace means harmony. Peace means everyone agrees and is content. Are the churches content with homosecuality? What about the Jews? How about the tons people who's research showed that homosexuality IS a choice? "Let's" not do anything then. "Let's" just not give Muslims the right to practice their faith. Would that suit you better?
Who said we have to have one generic society? Why can't everyone be happy? Why can't we agree to disagree that homosexuality is not a choice? Once we do that... Why can't we have a Muslim country, like it is meant to be in my religion? Is it absolutely important to someone that they are openly homosexual in a Muslim country? This is like a guy going to a strict Catholic's house.... then getting pissed that he can't hold his bf's hand there. Jeez, don't go! Stay home! Go somewhere else! It's not the end of the world! A human has the right to some boundaries doesn't he/she? As for America... and I sincerely don't mean to offend anyone or anything... Maybe not everyone wants to live "American"? Maybe there are people who don't want the reprucussions of absolute and total freedom? Maybe the society you're talking about doesn't agree with certain ideas and certain opinions? Is that so horrible? That I disagree with it? Is it any different than two people looking at the same stock, and one deciding it's horrible while the other decides it's worth the risk? I don't expect homosexuality to be eradicated obviously, that's ridiculous. But I do expect there to be Muslim countries, and in those countries, I would like the law to reflect Muslim beliefs. No one is forced to stay and no one is forced to leave. But if you want to live in a Muslim guy's house, then you go by the Muslim guy's rules. We're such horrible people. Forgive us.
He's talking about facing the consequences of being caught. You will be standing before God one day and your "book" will be open. As for your current life, as stated, four witnesses + penetration.
We can hope that prejudice against homosexuality will become obsolete and minimal in Saudi Arabia as well as in the U.S.
I think punishing people because they are gay or have been raped under Islamic law doesn't consistute a "peaceful" religion. When people on a large scale feel it's ok to partake in violence against women and homosexuals (not to mention infidels) - I do have a legitimate point in questioning it as peaceful. How can you declare Islam as a religion of peace when it condones violence against those that are different???? This is not about Americanizing or Westerninzing the Islamic world....a common defense by those who defend this kind of violence.....rather it's about MODERNIZING. In the modern world, human rights are respected. This isn't americana....it's actually more about tolerance and a respect for ALL OF HUMANITY. It comes from the places that really know the horrors of war - and of halocaust. To defend Islam's violence against homosexuality and women is contradictory to the notion of a peaceful Islam. You have to decide one way or the other. Which is? Is Islam a religion of peace, or a religion that has a right to kill women and gays? If you accept Islamic law as completely infalliable - then how can you question anyone elses law? How can you say any law is unjust? If the law is the final answer - then you should never question the law - no matter how unjust and immoral it might be.
you can. Just don't expect anybody to be sympathetic to that kind of sh-t. PS, it's kind of funny that you still apparently haven't understood that this is a joke article yet.
I see - so the gays born in the Islamic world want to be prosecuted? Or they should leave? Did i understand you correctly? I guess if you don't like America - get out! Right?
Imagine you go to a Catholic's house and you see him beating his wife and children with a chain. Or better yet, say while you are there his son walks in the room and declares that he is gay, and your catholic friend starts beating his son with a baseball bat. Should your respect for your host's hospitality and the sanctity of his home make you excuse any sin on his part? There is a point where your basic respect for basic humanity exceeds your respect for the hospitality of your host. Personally in that instance I would call the police.
If that was the case then Ted Haggard would've never been gay. Like it or not there are many people who are gay even though their religion says that it is a sin. There are many people who do many things that their religion says is a sin. Muslims aren't supposed to drink yet I've been drinking with muslims and have met gay muslims in Singapore and Malaysia even though it is illegal in both countries and is a sin in Islam. What about the Jews? There are gay Jews out there too even though, correct me if I'm wrong, homosexuality is Torahically forbidden too. Apparently there are many religious people of the three Abrahamic faiths who can't seem to help themselves but be gay even though it is forbidden. Religion is strong but there are many basic, biological urges, that can overpower religion. As even the Bible recognizes, the flesh is weak. Of course Muslims should practice their faith that doesn't mean that there aren't any gay Muslims because Islam forbids it. If that was the case there wouldn't be any gay fundamentalist Christians yet you only need to look as far as Ted Haggard to see that religion isn't always as strong as biology.
Ok, we're not going to get anywhere if you just keep ignoring this: 1) You think homosexuality is not a choice 2) Islam thinks homosexuality is a choice Your entire argument is based on statement #1. If you are unwlling to see this then there's no point carrying on the conversation.
