The future of America with the Tea Party in control

So your complaint is that they only pay the same as other people in their same economic situation?

 

In a sense, it sounds like that, but what I see is that an illegal population that should not be here, is not paying into the same fund proportionately as you or me. Do I feel the same way about the legal population? Yes and no, I can understand a mom with 3 kids, black white latino asian whaterver, who works hard and needs some sort of social justice, which is why we have the welfare system provided by our state (food stamps, tax credits which ultimately lead to refunds, public housing, hospitalization to an extent, etc).

 

If you knew these guys were illegal even though it was in legal rights to file taxes for them weren't you just contributing to what you claim is a problem by helping illegal immigrants?

In other words aren't you essentially a hypocrite that you rail against illegal immigrants but have knowingly helped and profited from them.

 

I never said I was the expert and I did provide an article that I believed pointed to the main thrust of the arguement.

This discussion began with you complaining about Obama's spending.

So for the fourth time, what specifically has Obama "spent" that you are upset about?

 

Obviously the solution to this problem is to raise illegal immigrant salaries so they hit higher marginal rates.

Facepalm award for this kid.

 

I'm willing to admit that what I did while in school is completely hypocritical of my current position. I'm not in that business anymore and I'm not going to hide that I did it, but I'm allowed to change my position on the subject upon realizing what I was really doing.

 

Actually I applaud your suggestion. Everyone would benefit from a highly skilled workforce in any demographic. Education is the most important route to get there, and that's what all the illegals don't have.

 

How about the $787 Billion stimulus plan for starters?

 

Every single economist that has any credibility has now come out and said that not only has the stimulus worked (hell even republicans have grudgingly touted it's success) but that it wasn't big enough.

 

There's a lot of projects here in Oregon. Here are some...

--Remediation of an abandoned mine site that was leaking acids into a major waterway that provides drinking water for people and habitat for endangered fish.

--Identification and remediation of old mines (some dating back to the gold rush era), including over 300 shafts and adits that people could die in. There were several vertical shafts that were covered with vegetation that would pose an immense danger to anyone out there... hikers, firefighters, prospectors, horse riders, etc. They are now sealed or covered with grates.

--Repair work on the Pacific Crest Trail, one of the major trail systems in the country.

--Replacement of a failed 45 year old wastewater system at a major campground. The old system literally sprayed crap out on an open field and let it dry in the sun.

--Lots of road improvements/extra lanes/resurfacing.

--Lots of hazardous fuel reductions near communities to decrease the chance of catastrophic wildfire in the area... and the stuff that was taken out was delivered to a biomass plant to create electricity.

--Brownfields cleanup.

--Identification and remediation of leaking underground storage tanks... think gasoline leaking into groundwater.

--Invasive weed eradication... invasives crowd out native plants, change the ecosystem, and are a profound threat to agriculture.

--Risk management and hazard study of Mt. Hood... you know, the big volcano that is essentially a suburb of Portland.

All of these projects not only save or create jobs, they also accomplish something good for society. Now, I know many wingnuts would like to see us go back to the Antebellum years, but surprisingly, a lot of sane people would like to live in a healthier world, would like to understand where the flows are going to go when the neighborhood volcano blows, would like to drive on paved roads, would like to protect agriculture from weeds, would like people's homes protected from wildfire, would like clean drinking water, groundwater, and lands.

Also, some people really like the tax cuts included in the Stimulus.

So, which of those projects/tax cuts are you against?

 

Wait, I thought part of the argument against illegal immigrants was that they take up space in our schools?

 

Ask budget reps of any state agency, in any state, how they were able to complete their agency budgets in the last two years to continue providing the level of services we want as citizens.

Then ask them how they did it.

 

Lol and here we go.....

Do you know what the largest component of the stimulus was? The annual AMT patch of 70 BILLION dollars. Want to know what thaT patch is and why is it necessary? All thanks to the hero of the GOP:

http://topics.nytimes.com/topics/reference/timestopics/subjects/a/alternative_minimum_tax/index.html

The alternative minimum tax was originally known as the "millionaire's tax,'' but without Congressional action, roughly a quarter of the nation's 90 million taxpayers could face it when they file taxes, some with incomes as low as $30,000 to $50,000.

The tax was created in 1969 to prevent the very rich from using the many loopholes then available to avoid all federal income taxes. How did the tax's reach expand? In 1986, when President Ronald Reagan and both parties on Capitol Hill agreed to a major change in the tax system, the law was subtly changed to aim at a wholly different set of deductions, the ones that everyone gets, like the personal exemption, state and local taxes, the standard deduction, certain expenses like union dues and even some medical costs for the seriously ill. At the same time it removed and revised some of the exotic investment deductions. A law for untaxed rich investors was refocused on families who own their homes in high tax states.

Under the A.M.T., as it is often called, affected taxpayers have to do a second tax calculation without claiming deductions like those for state and local taxes that they have come to rely on.

Every year, Congress has typically passed what's become known as the alternative minimum tax ''patch,'' which shields millions of taxpayers from paying the more onerous A.M.T. by increasing the amount of exempt income. The patch was included in the 2009 stimulus bill. The amount of exempt income increased to $46,700 for single filers, up from $46,200 in 2008, according to CCH, a tax information service. And for married couples filing joint returns, it rose to $70,950 from $69,950.

At the insistence of Senate Republicans, nearly $70 billion of the $787 billion economic recovery plan, enacted in February 2009, reflected the bookkeeping cost of adjusting the alternative tax for a year. Democrats said they would have preferred to address the A.M.T. separately, as the patch was seen as having little stimulative effect.



Let's see what else was in the stimulus:

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1939720,00.html#ixzz0wRreWD8P

When Congress wrote the Build America Bond program into February's $787 billion economic-stimulus bill, many predicted a flop. Nine months later, the municipal-bond program, which provides a federal subsidy to help states and other local governments raise funds, looks to be one of the economic recovery effort's biggest successes. Earlier this month, the volume of BABs, as they have come to be called, crossed the $50 billion mark.

"People originally said it would eliminate the issuance of municipal bonds," says John Cummings, who is head of muni-bond investments at money-management firm PIMCO. "Instead they have stabilized the market and helped to create jobs."

Observers say Build America Bonds have lowered borrowing costs for states and other local governments. The bonds have renewed and expanded investor interest in the muni-bond sector. And by getting money into the hands of cash-strapped local governments, the bond program has saved or even boosted jobs, stimulating the economy. Many investors are already lobbying to extend the program, which is not expected to close until the end of 2010.

"It's the biggest thing to hit the municipal-bond market in a generation," says Amy Resnick, the editor in chief of The Bond Buyer, which tracks the muni market. "It's clearly been a success as a means of stimulating the economy."



What John Cummings of PIMCO and Amy Reznick of the Bond buyer said the BABS program is a huge success? Pshhh...what would they know about bonds!

Shall I continue or would you like to point out what specifically you don't like about the stimulus?

 

So, you prefer educated dishwashers? Or, maybe you want nannies to help the kids they sit with their homework. I could understand that. Roofers should definitely understand the structural integrity of the roofs they're shingling. And gardeners shouldn't fertilize a lawn if they don't know the exact chemical composition of the fertilizer. Makes sense.

 

Good post, Phillyrocket. As for what the stimulus has done, it paid for a light at an intersection I use all the time, a place where there had been several accidents over the last few years. Some people got some work and I got a safer intersection.

 

lol...their children do, but the question is, do the children of illegals aspire and become the future leaders of America, would you expect anything less?

 

To point out specifics that I don't like of this bill is ludicrous and moot. There is absolutely no way that I can justify how the recipients of cash from this bill
are affected negatively in the short run, in fact, they are very much helped and jobs are definitely created for them, that is a fact. However, the president informed us that w/o this bill, unemployment would hover around 8.8% and in fact, the unemployment rate has gotten to 9.3% and peaked at 10%. 860,000 jobs have been created at the going rate of $282,000 per public sector job and $647,000 per private sector. Don't ever forget that when this government spends money, it is borrowing it and it borrows it at an interest rate. Some good reads:

http://www.forbes.com/2009/07/20/obama-stimulus-plan-fail-opinions-columnists-richard-a-epstein.html

http://mercatus.org/sites/default/files/publication/House Budget Committee Testimony 7.14.10.pdf