The future of America with the Tea Party in control

Here's my problem. You don't like the message so you blow it off and think it's some propaganda for pro-illegal immigration crap.

The article and others like that are based on factual studies. I'm sorry that you don't like what those studies conclude, but it doesn't change that they are facts.

It is a fact that illegals who work with fake SS #'s have federal income taxes taken out of their checks. They don't file for income tax returns, and never claim those taxes. That means they put more in as far as taxes than other legal Americans.

There are also those illegal immigrants who don't work with fake SS #'s and are totally off the books, so they don't do that. But to act like none do isn't accurate.

 

Do the multiplication and see what kind of actual numbers you come up with. Then figure out we are talking about people voting legitimately vs. people carrying out reigns of terror. Big diff. It's not about "judging" Islam; it's about actual damages in property and lives-- especially lives!

 

I can find enough violence in the Bible. I'm not a biblical fundamentalist. I'm quite sure the Koran has plenty of violence in it-- according to what people have told me.

For me, Christianity is an organizing principle around which to live my life. I'm more interested in the majesty and mystery of a God-man come to earth having left a tale. Again, I'm not a fundamentalist so don't lump me in there with finalbound's parents.

Just as Christianity can be hijacked and used to rationalize violence, so can Islam. The problem remains that there are more Muslims who are prone to doing that and their choices are more violent and final. Just compare the numbers.

Oh, and stop preaching at me about my life when you know nothing about it, please. No hard feelings-- just tired of it.

 

Sweet Lou et al -- I am going to make some basic points once again, but this thread is so worthless from a factual standpoint that it hurts in my gut.

1. There is a not such a thing as the Tea Party. There are many, many tea parties. Although the ones with which I communicate lean moderate conservative to conservative, there is a substantial number of moderate liberal to liberal members within the ranks. Most viewpoints are welcome (the racist, ultra left, ultra right and uncivil are filtered out rather quickly).

2. Members of the tea parties are slurred as racists when there is little truth there, unlike what people like Jones would have you believe. Moveon.org showed the KKK at a tea rally but did not show them being immediately thrown out. But, because the KKK was there, the tea parties are mostly racist.

A segment of the black movement (the racist New Black Panther convicted of polling place intimidation) called for killing whites and their "white cracker babies" got little to zero condemnation here. Does this mean all black Democrats and black groups are racist? Very few here liked that very much when I showed that exact same extrapolation within the NAACP.

3. Members of the tea parties have become so effective so quickly because they are intelligent, management/professional people who know how to organize, motivate and focus on problems. The opinions are just as sharply diverse as here, but there is no animousity -- just a search for answers that are practical, pragmatic and realistic. That is why members of the tea parties are Independents, Republicans, Democrats and Libertarians.

That said, I know few of you will believe that. That saddens me but does not curb my enthusiasm for doing my share in making the government more responsive to the people, more effective in governing with impartiality but without meddling unnecessarilty, and and spending our money efficiently.

 

Here's a question for you. Where were you when we didn't have a black president? Why are members of tea parties calling for "omg we need to take America back" now out of all times. Why did Govt get TOO big when Obama became president?

To me, unlike republican (or ex-repub) politician, there are no politicians publicly claiming to be "running" on or openly supporting the new black panther or the NAACP platform. If the new black panther group was invited to an official democratic convention, then I would definitely voice my opinion.

 

Of course there can only be estimates. There was one here once that put the number at 900,000.

After a brief search, it looks like the world-wide Muslim population is about 1.5 Billion. If one-one thousandth (.001%) of those are extremists, then that number is about 1.5 Miliion.

Seems like at their height, 20-30,000 Al Quedans were wreaking quite a bit of havoc because of their willingness/readiness/eagerness to die for their beliefs. Ironically, they seem to kill more Muslims than others. I guess they view them as martyrs, too.

I can't even nominate a remotely similar Christian terrorist organization that packs that kind of wallop.

 

I think this is what it comes down to. Where were the tea parties during the Savings and Loans crisis bailouts? Where were they when the GOP rammed through the largest entitlement program EVER the Medicare Part D Legislation of 2003? Where were they when Reagan and W brough the national deficit and debt/GDP to never before seen levels? The current tea parties complain about the current bailouts but I don't see signs saying Obama and[/B Bush are to blame, even though the bailouts preceded Obama.

The TeaBaggers act as if the current crisis and deficits did not begin until Obama took office. I know the American people have extremely short memories and attention spans but until I hear a Tea Partier point the finger at Reagan and W and the real cuplrits behind our economic issues and offer ideas other than the ones proven to fail like decrease taxes for the rich and deregulation,then they will continue to be dismissed as a waste of time to anyone with a modicum of intelligence.

 

Can you give me several concrete proposals most tea parties agree on? You know, some "answers that are practical, pragmatic and realistic" that address significant issues?

 

According to the online calculators I used 15,000 X 1000 is 15,000,000 (Million) not 1,500,000,000 (Billion).

On the other hand 1,500,000,000 divided by 1000 is, in fact, 1,500,000 not 15,000.

I wouldn't believe the KKK propoganda. These are "conservatively" estimated figures (one-thousandth of one percent) not AQ figures.

 

I can play that game too. Watch me be obtuse....

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Crusade
"The four main crusader armies left Europe around the appointed time in August 1096. The size of the entire crusader army is difficult to estimate; various numbers were given by the eyewitnesses, and equally various estimates have been offered by modern historians. Crusader military historian David Nicolle considers the armies to have consisted of about 30,000–35,000 crusaders"

4 x 35,000 = 140,000 x 9 crusades = 1,260,000
And I haven't included all the women and children in this number just as you did so maybe multply that by 4 (2 parents + 2 kids)? Percentage wise assuming 33% of world was Christian with the world's population around that time of 265 million. Hence, 5.7% of the chirstians were extremists in 1000 AD. ZOMG that is more than .001% you're claiming!!!1!11!!one!1!elven!11!!

 

Output is only as good as the input...

.001% of 1.5bil = .00001 x 1.5bil = 15,000.

 

I would recommend deferring to giddyup's knowledge in this area.

 

I am curious what issues are these moderate liberal to liberal tea partiers bringing up at the tea party?

As I said in another thread I don't believe there are any significant amount of Tea Partiers who are supporters of the KKK or are as overtly racist as the KKK but I do think there is a problem within the Tea Party of racial charged rhetoric and straight up racist rhetoric. I think this has to do with lack of reflection about such rhetoric. At the same time as you note the Tea Party isn't a single organization and has a hard time policing itself. That is a problem as there is nothing stopping anyone claiming to be a member of the Tea Party(s) and expressing racist views from representing the Tea Party. As I noted in the other thread I salute the Tea Party Federation for taking steps to address that and I think it will benefit the Tea Party in the long run if it wants to be a viable movement to continue doing that.

Did anyone defend the New Black Panthers as we've seen other posters defend racist remarks made by people like Rush Limbaugh? I think it is a given that practically no one supports the New Black Panthers.

Except even you admitted such extrapolation to be extreme as to enter the realm of absurdity.

I think the effectiveness of the Tea Party(s) is still in question. They undoubtedly helped Scott Brown win in MA but he seems to be backing off of some Tea Party positions and doesn't claim himself to be one. They cost the Republicans a Congressional seat in an NY special election and while they have helped propel some candidates to primary victories we still don't know how those candidates will do in the general. Its looking very possible that some of them like Sharon Angle may lose when a Republican not so closely aligned with the Tea Party would win.

As far as the search for practical, pragmatic and realistic answers I have yet to see many of those put forward by the Tea Party. As I noted earlier the Tea Party did put out the Contract from America but that seemed vague, impractical and not very realistic.

There is nothing wrong with that and in principle I have nothing against the Tea Party as a movement of increasing citizen involvement. That said what I am seeing out of the Tea Party is at best half-baked.

 

There is no Tea Party, just a broad relatively diverse group of fiscal and social conservatives who want the out of control spending to stop. Some are Republicans, some Libertarians, some Independents, and, yes, even a few Democrats. They view the Reagan years as the best of times. Some are even fond of the Clinton years. Their issue is primarily economics. The 60's Liberals were against government intervention, ironically as modern Liberals seem to want more government control. And before you dismiss the movement, just remember, "normally" 50% of Americans don't vote. Any movement that mobilizes ANY part of that group can weld significant power.

 

Okay I get that.

Whoops comment one is antithetical to comment two, you just destroyed all credibility about wanting to stop spending.