The future of America with the Tea Party in control

sweet lou 4 2 saw a racist sign at a tea party rally = tea party members are uneducated racists.

 

And here we go..... I'll leave the rest of your the "illegals are the cause of every problem in this country and they don't pay taxes" tirade to others to debunk.

My question is state specifically what Obama has "spent" that you have a problem with.

 

Before I answer your question, tell me how you're going to debunk my argument that illegals don't pay taxes. I think I need to be more specific, as illegals are forced to pay state sales tax on their personal purchases. But they don't pay federal income taxes. I'd really like for you to debunk this, I'd like for you to explain to me how illegals pay their taxes?

 

And I never said they're the cause of all of our problems, you said that. I'm referring to a very specific facing very real problems due to their geography.

 

There have been several threads on this subject with numerous studies concluding the opposite of your rather narrow and unsubstantiated opinion. I am not the expert and therefore will defer to other posters who have discussed this subject with a stronger degree of knowledge than I.

I believe the crux of the argument lies in the fact that illegals pay into SS and federal taxes without collecting refunds or SS benefits upon retirement. For example:

Immigration is good for the financial health of Social Security because more workers mean more tax revenue. Illegal immigration, it turns out, is even better than legal immigration. In the fine print of the 2008 annual report on Social Security, released last week, the program’s trustees noted that growing numbers of “other than legal” workers are expected to bolster the program over the coming decades.

One reason is that many undocumented workers pay taxes during their work lives but don’t collect benefits later. Another is that undocumented workers are entering the United States at ever younger ages and are expected to have more children while they’re here than if they arrived at later ages. The result is a substantial increase in the number of working-age people paying taxes, but a relatively smaller increase in the number of retirees who receive benefits — a double boon to Social Security’s bottom line.

We’re not talking chump change. According to the report, the taxes paid by other-than-legal immigrants will close 15 percent of the system’s projected long-term deficit. That’s equivalent to raising the payroll tax by 0.3 percentage points, starting today.

That is not to suggest that illegal immigration is a legitimate fix to Social Security’s problems. It is another reminder, however, of the nation’s complex relationship with undocumented workers. Would the people who want to deport all undocumented workers be willing to make up the difference and pay the taxes that the undocumented are currently paying?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/02/opinion/02wed3.html?_r=1&ref=opinion

In the meantime let's get back to all of that indiscrete children's future ruining, tax increasing, spending that Obama is ramming down our throats.

 

So you are using the extreme elements to speak for the party as a whole? I can't imagine how small that group is...

I seriously doubt that many want to abandon their personal safety for the sake of someone else's profits.

 

This is the most idiotic, simpleton crap analysis that is typical of the pro obama, pro illegal immigration cesspool of a media outlet that we know as the nytimes. Read this, get back to me, going to get a massage: http://www.azcentral.com/business/a...-in-large-underground-shadow-economy0725.html

 

Do you approve of the Obama administration's huge increase in the deportation of illegal immigrants? Do you approve of the Obama administration's huge increase in prosecutions of businesses that hire illegals?

 

Why would I not approve these kind of increases? If these numbers are true, wonderful. Of course, that's a good thing. Don't have time to research these claims right now, but realize that Obama is walking a fine line right now. He needs to make some sort of stand after all this hooplah with AZ, yet, at the same time, he's supporting the illegals via the DOJ's current lawsuit. Thanks to a Clinton appointee judge, they've succeeded in taking out the meat and potatoes of the bill for now through an injunction. If those numbers are true to the core of what they are supposed to reflect, it is nothing more than an attempt to create political capital to maintain some level leverage against those who support the AZ bill.

 

We would have a new pledge of allegiance,

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the confederacy
and to the union for which it stands.
One union under god, of the old testament
Because in the new testament, god was a commie and a homosexual.
Undefeated, with some freedoms and the patriot act for all.

 

I'm wondering if you read the article you cited as it doesn't necessarily conflict with the NYT article that Phillyrocket cited and even supports it to some extent.

From your link:
[rquoter]The economic impact of illegal immigrants is difficult to measure because so many participate in the shadow economy. They pay some taxes, avoid others and send a lot of money out of the country. They probably use more in services than they pay in taxes, some experts say.

But immigrants do pay taxes. When they shop in stores or eat out in restaurants, they pay sales taxes, helping contribute to 55 percent of Arizona's revenue. If they rent, a portion of their rent helps pay their landlord's property tax. Those who own legitimate businesses pay payroll taxes.

Those who use fake Social Security numbers to get a job have state and federal taxes withheld and pay into the Social Security system but end up hurting themselves. Unless they get legalized, they won't have access to that money.

Illegal immigrants who earn cash aren't paying income taxes, which account for about one-third of Arizona's tax revenue.

Arizona State University economist Tom Rex said Arizona is probably not losing that much from their unreported income taxes because immigrants tend to earn so little.

After all, almost half of Americans had so many deductions, credits or other exemptions last year that they didn't need to pay federal income tax, according to the Tax Policy Center in Washington, D.C.

"I would think most day laborers would fall below the minimum," Rex said. "So even if they were trying to fairly report their wages, they probably wouldn't have any tax due."

[/rquoter]

It does say supporting your point:
[rquoter]The Federation for American Immigration Reform, a Washington, D.C., group promoting immigration reform, estimated this month that illegal immigration costs federal and local taxpayers $100 billion a year after the estimated $13 billion in taxes immigrants pay.

Costs include border enforcement, education, health care and welfare assistance such as free or reduced lunches for children. States bear the brunt, or about 84 percent, and Arizona's net share was estimated at $2.43 billion, the group said.
[/rquoter]


But further after that it says
[rquoter]Economic boost

Other studies report that immigrants help in other ways and that the costs of their residency, such as educating their children, are relatively minor.

Immigrant labor has grown largely in the U.S. because Americans increasingly have become less willing to work certain jobs.

Gordon Hanson, a University of California-San Diego economics professor, said in a study published in December that the U.S. population has become dramatically better educated over the past 50 years.

In 1960, about half of U.S.-born Americans didn't have high-school diplomas. Today, that percentage is about 8 percent. In contrast, about 47 percent of illegal immigrants between 25 and 64 have not completed high school or its equivalent.

The country still has plenty of low-skilled jobs that many high-school grads don't want, such as those in some construction fields, food preparation, janitorial work and groundskeeping. Immigrants came in to fill that gap. That labor force has proved to be flexible and nimble, moving around the country and growing and shrinking in response to employer needs, Hanson said.

According to a 2007 University of Arizona study, immigrants in Arizona in 2004 made up large sectors of low-skilled jobs: agriculture, 59 percent; landscaping, 51 percent; food-related manufacturing, 35 percent; and private household help, 33 percent.

Several researchers have concluded that even if immigrants have a net cost to society because of the education and health care they receive and the extra law-enforcement costs, the bottom line is the expense isn't that great.

Hanson and Rex said those costs would be a tiny fraction, less than 1 percent of the country's total gross domestic product, or all the production of products and services.

And even if all the illegal immigrants left and the work they did was performed by legal workers, their replacement workers still likely would receive more in services than they would pay into the system.

"Low-wage workers are a net cost to the state regardless of their immigrant status," Rex said. "Thus, much of the cost being blamed on undocumented workers would remain even if the undocumented left Arizona."
[/rquoter]

Your article says there are some cost associated but those are difficult to estimate and are probably only a small loss anyway. It also addresses illegal immigrants might also be a net benefit in terms of paying into SSI and not collecting out of it while they are a boon to the economy by taking on lower wage labor that might not be done and if it was still done by American Citizens and legal residents there would still likely be the same services costs.

Your article at most paints a very mild problem and also suggest that illegal immigration isn't the economic crisis you make it out to be.

 

Lou, are you trying to be the 'basso' of the Left?

 

Forcing people to walk around carrying papers which the AZ bill does isn't the American way. The AZ doesn't secure our borders, it may be a drain on the Fed govt. forcing them to go through extra and unnecessary deportation stuff, but it doesn't make it harder for any illegals to come into the state.

It was a bit of govt. intrusion by the AZ law, and hopefully it will be stopped.

But what the increased deportations by the Obama administration do show is that it's BS to act like the AZ law is necessary because the Feds aren't doing their job. They are doing it more now than they did under Bush.

 

And I will say it again. AZ cannot Constitutionally or practically enforce the law. They are dependent on the Fed government to determine who is an illegal and to deport.

 

Make sure they massage your head for a very long time. Get the blood flowing amongst the neurons. Clearly, something is not functioning at an optimum level for you in the cerebral cortex.

 

You're right, and I think that was the basis for the decision to halt parts of the AZ bill.

 

Sweet Lou 4 2,

You've been caught throwing around a basso-type generalized assumption based on flawed logic and what do you do? Continue to hash out them same argument regardless of the fact that the very article you posted had absolutely nothing to do with the Tea Party. Not a single mention of the Tea Party in the article. Then, to add to your hilarious buffoonery, the article actually centers around a Republican, Charles Grassley demanding accountability and transparency from the orthopedic device company. When I called you out on your false logic, you just threw it under the rug and continue to bash the Tea Party. When further inquired to present any facts against the Tea Party for its demand of abolishing the FDA and siding with corporations, you still managed to avoid the argument and yap about the "extreme" elements of the tea party as proof when there is none whatsoever.

Finally and more importantly, I'm still waiting on a factual explanation of how your original article supports any of the numerous allegations you have presented against the Tea Party. Care to explain the false logic of a Republican demanding corporate transparency = Tea Party and GOP stand for Big Business?

You can either continue to ignore me and others who pointed out your false logic or stop trolling this board like the leftist version of Basso.

Have a nice day!

 

Still waiting....