The filibuster is unconstitutional

RIP Legend

 

Well, it wasn't a "military" coup but it was a coup of dudes dressed up like the military, utilizing military tactics, many of whom were ex-military. Had the military got directly involved, the insurrection would have been successful.

btw, historically speaking, very few coups are successful ...the first time. Once coups start happening, they tend to keep happening and then sometimes the coup is successful on subsequent attempts. So as they say, if history is our guide, there will be another coup attempt and the next one might work.

 

So the fact that the Military actually stopped the coups means that it's especially a term that should not be used, right?

Do you really think coups are going to be a thing now?

 

Oh, it's worth noting that the filibuster was "invented"

Correct, it wasn't a military coup. But it should be noted that that ex-military participation was proportionally higher than the general population. I don't remember where I saw that stat but it is definitely an issue that military personnel are being radicalized.

Don't take my word for it. Go look at some historical accounts. Coups rarely are successful the 1st time yet coup attempts often happen multiple times or take years to pull off. Early coup attempts are often dry runs where the leader learns and regroups.

For example, Hilter attempted his first coup in 1923. He was imprisoned which is when he wrote Mein Kampf which later was his playbook.
Napolean started his takeover in 1799 but didn't gain control until 1804.
Fidel Castro started his revolution in 1953 but didn't cease power until 1959.

Just to name a few notable ones. You can do your own research. But there is a long history that government takeovers are not one/done deals. At this point, Trump supporters are MORE radicalized now than they were before and his base has grown. Said it another way, if Trump should win in '24 using less than democratic means, it will not be without precedent and will not be surprising to those that are paying attention.

 

you should read Mike Pence's letter.

full.pdf (nyt.com)

 

Read it and found it interesting. Not sure how that relates to any of my statements. Is there a point?

I did notice I had a typo where my 1st sentence in my post is an error. Something about the filibuster was 'invented'. That is a half thought that I meant to delete.

 

Interesting timing. This article in the Chron (via NY Times):

Are we really facing a second civil war? (chron.com)

Again, if Trump successfully mounts a coup in or around 2024, there will be people that said "I told you so". The military style intervention will be limited, yet targeted. The rest of the coup will manipulating our own system of government against ourselves.

Here is a plausible scenario. Trump loses the popular vote (again) and this time he successfully gets local election boards to not certify and switch their votes. This could happen while armed "citizens" are amassing and infiltrating polling stations casting further doubt into the legitimacy of results. I could easily see this happening in Atlanta and then Georgia being certified for Trump where this time they did indeed "find more votes". Trump wins in a narrow EC victory. This is the tipping point, but the job (of killing democracy) isn't done. Because the GOP took control of the house in 2022, there will be no investigations and the Supreme Court will refuse to hear the case based on Georgia was legally entitled to do so, per state law passed in 2021. GOP now finishes the job of gutting election laws nationwide making it impossible for Dems to regain control. The final step is to trash all constitutional elements of checks/balances functionally completing the transition from democracy to autocracy.

All Trump needs to do is not lose in a landslide. If it's close, all the pieces are in place and there is not much the Dems could do to stop it.

This is why I think Michelle Obama needs to run. She is literally the only person I can think of that could win big and avert the above outcome. I feel like a crazy person typing this but it all seems plausible.

 

narrator: this is a crazy person.

 

That's not an article, it's an opinion piece, and if Michelle Obama ran it could actually increase turnout and fervor in the Republican Party.

There is no guarantee that Michelle O would win in a landslide, and it would not stop these people anyway because Biden won in a landslide and look where we are.

Democrats need to just turn out to vote period and not get caught up in petty squabbles, and not turn the Democratic primary into a litmus test for anything and the election will be a landslide whoever runs.

 

I don't disagree with anything you said. History will be the judge and there is no way to (in)validate with alternate history. So we'll see.

 

Oh, regarding the Dems showing up, are you imagining the Dems will have a higher turnout in 2024? Are you also imagining the GOP does not have a higher turnout?

Dems eclipsed voter turnout in 2020 exceeding the landslide victories of Obama ...yet Biden barely won and the whole election came down to a few thousand votes in a few swing states. If the GOP now controls the election boards in those swing states, and that's exactly what they are working on, it's easy to see how the results may flip.

So I wouldn't be so dismissive in suggesting the Dems simply need to "not get caught up in petty squabbles".

 

The military is not full of our best nor our brightest, but it is a safety net for the poor and uneducated.

We really need a civil program so that we can rebuild our infrastructure and not have the poor folks only option upward is the miltiary.

DD

 

Just skimming the last page. A military coup is one of the few things I'm worried about. Why it's problematic that there does appear to be many in the military particularly in enlisted ranks who supported and participated in Jan. 6 and espouse anti democratic views I don't think the leadership of the military is like that. Gen. Flynn and his brother appear to be an exception when we've seen several high ranking officers such as Gen. Milley, Mattis and Adm. McRaven forcefully and publicly speak out. I have a hard time seeing the Joint Chiefs willing intervening in overturning an election on specious reasons. I could certainly see a lower level officers doing so but I doubt they would have much support from the rest of the military.

As the NYT Op-Ed pointed out I think the bigger danger is of chaos at polls being used as justification of State Legislatures to overrule their own state elections and name partisan Electors.

 

Trump is probably not running and if he did, he would not get the same turnout so it's double-sided and like I said as long as democrats turn out the same as they did in 2020 we win because no republican candidate will get the turnout that Trump did.

That's why I said if Democrats do not get caught up in petty squabbles we win the 20/24 presidential election because Republicans are not going to unite around anybody like they did with Trump and Trump will probably campaign against the nominee out of spite.

So no its not easy to see how things can flip if we don't get caught up in petty squabbles and come out and vote.

 

False equivalency.

Just because something legitimate was used for wrong does not make that legitimate tool inherently evil and wrong.

Argue against the filibuster on its own merits and stop trying to act like its only use or reason to exist is to fight anti-slavery, it's lazy and dishonest.

 

It really isn't lazy and dishonest when the filibuster has a long true history of being a primary weapon to oppose civil rights. How is that not an argument against the filibuster?

 

the Democratic Party has a long history as the pro-slavery party. that's an argument against the Democratic Party.

 

you are an adult who can type complete sentences. I hope I don't have to actually explain why that analogy doesn't work.

 

it's not an analogy, it is an illustration of the failure of the logic of your assertion--without resorting to symbolic logic. you're welcome.