Batman, aside from my high regard for you, you offer me nothing to which to respond. If you wish to insult me, that is your right but I'm not inclined to defend my being "halfway reasonable, delusional," etc. etc. That is for the board to decide, not for me to defend. BetterThanI is as exasperated with my positions vis-a-vis his posiitons. His angry tone is his right in defending what he believes or attacking what I believe. However, a basis for dialogue and discussion is there in his questions/observations. He is pursuing his beliefs with argument, not quarrelsome name calling.
His main point, and mine, is that you are guilty of exactly what you bemoan here, by direct association with the nastiest, loudest "quarrelsome name callers" in the entire country. If you wanted anyone to take you seriously, an accounting of the "facts and fictions" to do with teabaggers would begin with the fact that their complaints range from lies and misunderstandings (birther stuff, death panels, taxes, czars, etc.) to imaginary threats (this pre-emptive stuff you imagine might one day happen in direct contradiction to what Obama has said and promised). Every teabagging complaint is one or the other: wrong or imaginary. And yet, they're 'mad as hell and aren't gonna take it anymore.' How could any reasonable person respond to that with anything other than ridicule and insults born of the frustration that a bunch of ignorant, uneducated screamers and shouters have barfed all over the debate at this critical time in our nation's history? You want to be taken seriously? Talked to like an adult? Stop hanging out with stupid, angry babies.
You said he apologized and that should be the end of the story. Obviously there's much more to the story considering the man's history and it's highly questionable why Tea Taggers and conservatives are standing in support of the man. This is part of the accumulation of crap that makes it evident there is a racial aspect to the attacks on Obama.
I will not stand one more person calling Thrumond a racist. His lifetime voting record reflects otherwise. Yes, at one point in time, Strom Thurmond was a segregationist. So were most of the politicians to serve around 1940's and fifties included current Democrat Senator Robert Byrd. Thurmond also served our country in WWII, supported the Voting Rights Act, supported making MLK day a national holiday, and was the first U.S. Senator to appoint a black man to his permanent staff. Strom Thurmond was an honorable man and a great American. People on the Hill still look to emulate his office model for constituent service on both sides of the aisle. Obviously Thurmond was a hero of Joe Wilson, but the man led such a distingued and selfless career, that I really doubt racism had anything to with Wilson's choice of heroes. Obviously he made a mistake calling Thurmond's daughter a liar, but I would bet it was because he believed her to be lying about being illegitimate, and her being black had nothing to do with it. All of us are prone to hero worship, and we will defend our heroes even in their failings. As far as the SCV is concerned, the organization has split in recent years between traditionalists and lunatics. The traditionalists provide college scholarships, fight to keep civil war battle sites preserved, and work to restore civil war memorials. They have even denounced the KKK on several occasions for interjecting racist protesting at SCV gatherings. You can in no way speculate which organization Wilson is a part of. Although, if you've met Joe Wilson in person (and I have) after talking with the man for five minutes you couldn't possibly think he would be a part of the lunatic faction. Yes, he did vote to allow the Confederate flag flying over the SC capitol, but many people view that as a part of history. The have forefathers that died in the Civil War, and the believe that flying the flag is a way to honor their memory. I really don't think that makes them racist. If we are going to judge a person based on his or her memberships to organizations, should we consider President Obama a racist for being a member of Rev. Wright's church for 20 years?
The only "support" of which I am aware is that he apologized twice. Obama and even Pelosi said the matter was done, but some want to use it to fuel a race-baiting campaign. They think it increases Democratic Party stature. Personally, I don't.
Strom never explicitly renounced his earlier views on racial segregation. Byrd has explicitly renounced his earlier views on racial segregation yes some poeple do and some people don't
thumbs, I apologize for any of my insulting posts. You have shown restraint in trying to rationalize a politically misguided group espousing a political position of which many well-informed posters of both conservative and liberal viewpoints vehemently disagree and condemn. Because I feel that you are sincere in what you now believe, however misguided, I will resist the urge to reply in the future, though I genuinely believe you have been misled and used by the extremist element in your party. We will just agree to disagree.
when your freedom was getting trampled on by the Bush Admin, where were you. I don't care what you say, this is why I will never give these people the benifit of the doubt
Strom Thurmond was a racist. To the core. To the end. Remeber Trent Lott's praise? And by the way, SC was the last state to recognize MLK Day and in 1979, Strom tried to get it changed from a Federal Holiday to a "National Day of Recognition." In the following Congress, Thurmond's committee could have taken action on a King Holiday bill, but it was never brought forward. The only support he ever offered a King Bill was voting for the 1983 version after it was assured of passage by Coretta and Stevie Wonder (Happy Birthday) mounting a huge public campaign and gathering millions of signatures in support (and Helms came off looking like an idiot by trying to mount a filibuster).
No, no, no. As Fulkner once said: "Facts and truth really don't have much to do with each other." Logic. Do a search. Ahh, here you are wrong. You have direct control over one person who attends tea bag events: yourself. When the group with which you align yourself starts to become known more for being crazy rather than having a valid point, perhaps you should withdraw. You know the old lyric: "If the band you're in starts playing different tunes..." So you really don't have a problem with distortions and misinformation: just as long as it lines up with your agenda. Riiiiight. Concurrently, your original post bemoanning the "distortions" of the media holds no weight whatsoever. But you didn't post those, did you? You posted the worst case scenario from a third-world nation trying to scare people into siding with you. Talk FACT, not anecdotes: healthcare in Germany, France, the U.K., and Canada are better than the U.S. According to the 2000 W.H.O. report, health care systems are ranked as follows: 1. France 18. U.K. 25. Germany 30. Canada 37. U.S.A. 95. Panama You can find anecdotes from any country to support your argument, but the FACTS say you are wrong. Haha! That was funny! How you intentionally misunderstood me! Classic! Because, you know, Kos, Huffington, and the Times are the ones bringing guns to poitical protests. And calling the President nazi, Hitler, communist, facist, or socialist. And mocking the death of Sen. Kennedy. And shouting racial epitaphs under the guise of political protest. Your tea bag "movement" is based more on anger and hate than a desire for the betterment of all Americans.
Here's the problem. ANY health care bill that ever comes out will be extremely long and complex - that's the nature of the problem and solution. Any bill is going to have facts that people can and will distort to make scary. You said you're form reform but against this plan. What, specifically, do you have a problem with in the current bill?
Again - there's no reason to expect a massive increase in need for doctors/etc. Everyone who has a tumor in the US - insured or not - already gets the surgery. It's funded by any of the methods you mentioned or by taxpayers. The only change will be that those surgeries would happen earlier when they are easier surgeries - requiring LESS resources - with a corresponding increase in primary care usage.
It's remarkable how Joe Wilson could be involved in one racist situation after another without denouncing or diassociating from any of it and have someone claim it not to be about race. Now you want to equivocate Obama's past with that of Joe Wilson's? Thank you Glenn Beck.
No, not really. In fact, Ben Franklin thought there should be some payment for the tea that was dumped. Somehow, this has morphed from the original protest of taxation without representation to no taxation or any government action that might benefit somebody somewhere. The Revolution happens without the Boston Tea Party, as significant as it was. There were a number of civil rights protests that were, in my opinion, much more important. There have been others from different eras in our history as well. (I would argue that the mother of all protests of the Revolution was Lexington-Concord.)
