Please list the FA's that will be in MLE range and decide if they are better than Landry (factoring his upside and his injury). My take is that there are no free agents that will go for the mle that are worth throwing Landry away on. He is a better shooter than Scola and an excellent rebounder and an underated defensive player. I think his upside is much greater than Scola's and I am a Scola fan. If you are so enamored with a PF at 25 then you would be better off packaging Scola with expirings or Battier and getting something very significant. Scola looks to have lots of trade value (mike miller for instance).
Nike, Now that is what I am talking about. Well said. I concur about the Rockets and their needs versus what they take in the draft. If they do take a PF it may signal they don't think they can sign Landry and/or they would use it as leverage to get Landry to sign a smaller deal. I loved how Carl Landry played for about 20 games last year, but the length it took him to come back and the lack of explosion when he did come back is very worrying, and if the franchise feels this may be an on going problem they may have to make a hard decision on the guy. Thank you for understanding the meaning of the thread and how it is about the contract situation, rather than the player. Much appreciated. DD
Rterry, It does not have to be a free agent that is worth the full MLE, let me give you an example. Say we have not signed Landry and we make a $3 million a year offer to Pietrus, a reasonable offer to a guy that fills a need. Now you have basically limited your ability to offer Landry more than what is left of the Rocket's MLE (Less than 3 million left on the total MLE amount)....so that would open it up for any other team to offer $1 more of their MLE than the Rockets have left to steal Landry away for nothing. The point is that we can not use ANY of the MLE money until Landry is resigned and/or traded. DD
I don't see your reasoning. If Landry leaves, he leaves a void. He plays very well with Yao and McGrady. I just don't see the Rockets getting a player better suited to them than Landry in a sign and trade unless the other team does something stupid. I am always for other teams doing something stupid in the Rockets favor, but stupid things has very little relevance as far as pointing out Landry. Stupid things are random and can happen to Kwame Brown as easily as Carl Landry. Disclaimer: I am a big fan of the way Landry works with Yao and McGrady and value him much more highly than say Battier and Alston.
Joe Joe, I am saying that Carl's contract situation may have an effect on the upcomming draft. And that if the team drafts another PF, it may mean they think they might lose Landry. DD
If a better player comes along, I'm sure the Rockets won't let Landry hold them back. The Rockets did this to themselves by drafting a guy that was better than they thought and then didn't lock him up for at least two years. You don't give up value unless it is for higher value.
When can Landry - Rox start to 'legally' negotiate? IMHO CL is < MLE. 1/2 MLE/3 yrs is the best I believe he will receive, here or elsewhere. BTW - how close is the LLE to 1/2 MLE? @2mil v @2.85? Sheesh, get a Chinese marketer to sign him to endorse their gear if he's in Rox gear to make up the difference!
Perhaps Joe Joe, but that would mean risk losing a valuable asset for basically nothing. That is my point, that until Landry is resigned, I think the Rockets are going to have to sit on the sidelines and watch, and it may mean they miss out on a player like Magette who might actually sign for the full MLE. Or are you saying, they would sign Magette regadless of Landry's situation? I just don't think you let an asset walk, you should get something for it...always. DD
Does one not assume that both sides of the negotiation have a sense for how and when it will play out? I'd be horribly disappointed in whichever side was not proactive on this since before Game 7 (sic) v Utes.
That would be an excellent way to go about it, but the question is, will Landry do that deal, or more importantly will his inexperienced agent do that deal? I think the Landry situation is going to get pretty messy, I just do not want the organization waiting on the resolution on a player that may or may not be able to be that explosive guy that we loved for 20 games last year. DD
I agree except if the team drafts another PF, it more likely affects Chuck Hayes and Mike Harris first. Landry is a good relatively young backup PF...if those grew on trees, Harris and Hayes wouldn't be here (I consider both players NBA quality, but not Landry).
If Magette wants to come, the Rockets have no choice but to let Landry walk if they value Magette more. Well, unless they can do a sign and trade for Magette which would be my preferred option.
I think you are stating the obvious. It would be better to sign Landry sooner rather than later. Maybe that is not possible. Maybe Landry wants close to the full MLE. Are you willing to wait for another team to prove to him he's not worth it? Are you willing to offer him 2-3M and forget him if that won't do it? What is your opinion? My opinion is you wait him out and see if he gets offers close to the mle. If he does, you match, if he doesn't you offer him less. I don't think it really hurts waiting because there aren't any free agents at the MLE worth worrying over. In my opiinion, Landry at the full mle is a gamble because of his knees, but less of a gamble than a journeyman whom we already know has less upside. That is why I am asking for the list of free agents you value more than Landry at or below MLE. I suggest there are none.
OK, but if you wait you might lose out on other free agents that you are targeting in other areas of need like PG or athletic Swingman who can shoot. I think the team has to make a decision on him quickly and be willing to tell him that this is our final offer....perhaps the LLE and then go about their business. But, I don't think they will do that, because they would not want to risk losing Landry for nothing by having another team make an offer for him that the Rockets could not match because they offered say Pietrus some of the MLE money. My opinion is that they should resolve this quickly, and if not, then we may be prepared for Landry leaving...for nothing. DD
I don't agree Pietrus is really that good or that good of a fit. It doesn't even seem like his own team is very enamored with him. The knock on him has been low bball IQ and players with that issue has struggled getting minutes with the current team. Morey likely prefers Landry over Pietrus. In fact, I don't think Morey would pay Pietrus the full MLE even if Landry's contract was not an issue. More to the point, there is likely to be a much smaller difference between the player that you can get with the MLE and either the player you can trade Bobby Jackson for or someone who can be picked up at the LLE than there is between Carl Landry and the PF you get at 25. Just go back and look at the MLE signings (or near full MLE signings) around the league over the past 2-3 years and tell me which one of them is really worth giving up Landry for, considering what you can get through a LLE/part MLE signing or a Bobby Jackson expiring contract trade. Sure, Landry got a lot of easy looks, but there are PFs on other teams with teammates who get them easy looks, too, and they don't have a 23+ PER. There is something different about this guy. Yes, we all get the point that Landry prevents Rockets from using the MLE. We just don't think the MLE is worth as much as you think. There are other ways to get a comparable-- or maybe even better-- player without giving up Landry.
Is this the same agent Landry started with last year? BTW - I'd 'kill' for Petrus, but IMHO he'll get the FULL MLE from some team (maybe Nets? Cavs? 'Cats?). As I said elsewhere, if one is looking for 'clues' Thursday nite an enlightening clue will be if a Point is tapped. (The brass may think the 4 they draft can become a back-up 5...or 3; but a Point is a Point is my point.) As long as I'm prattling, fleece K-Mac outta Randy Foye!
Nike, As crazy or tough as Landry's agent wants to get, there is no getting around the Collective Bargainign Agreement, which guarantees Landry's return to the Rockets at a reasonable price (and a price lower than the agent wants). Just ask Anderson Varejao what a summer of tough negotiations and holding out got him contract wise. You can dream for as much as you want and have as big a tantrum as you want, and you may even have the talent to generate some interest... but you can't beat the system.
This is interesting, did the Cavs use any of their MLE last year, or did they have to leave it open to force Varajao back to Cleveland? DD
As far as I have seen he's still the only NBA player on Buddy Baker's client list. Which is why I wonder if his contract negotiations could be interesting. At this point his website isn't even up to view.
Varejao had 3 years in Cleveland, they could use Bird rights. I think this also was a reason for the holdout, as they could pay the big bucks under the salary cap. More to the point, only a handful of teams could make an offer Cleveland wasn't willing to match. Clearly, they were fine with MLE money. Thus, Cleveland had a huge advantage. IF we are ok with Landry at MLE money, then it's the same situation. If not, the two aren't comparable. Carl -- I fully get that Landry can't leave unless the Rockets allow him to do so. And I'm not also not saying like DaDakota is that there will be a better use of our MLE out there (Pietrus is just as limited offensively as Shane, and not as good a 3 point shooter or defender). But there could be a team stupid enough to offer Landry a full MLE deal -- remember when the Knicks threw 42 mill at Shandn Andersn? I don't think full MLE is reasonable for Landry. I don't know what Morey thinks about it. If he would be willing to pay full MLE for Landry, then this is absolutely a non-issue. If his cut-off point is something much lower, like 3 years $10m, or something along those lines, there's a real possibility that we choose not to match an offer for him.
