1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

The difference between Harden and superstars

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Senator, May 12, 2019.

  1. YOLO

    YOLO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    46,471
    Likes Received:
    44,648
    then james just needs to be that guy then. I'd rather go down knowing he tried to do what he could instead of seeing the passive unknown of what he could of done better. Which is something we've brought up numerous times now in the postseason with harden. he isn't immune to criticism contrary to what you want to believe.
     
  2. SuperMarioBro

    SuperMarioBro Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2006
    Messages:
    3,765
    Likes Received:
    1,399
    There's always something you can improve on, and Harden knows that... He's gotten better every damn year he's been in the NBA, and it's incredible. I bet that floater is going to be deadly by next season.

    Of course no one is perfect or blameless, but the point is this series is not on Harden anymore than the Cavs losing to the Warriors in last year's finals was on LeBron.

    As for your edit, I actually think the warriors are a tougher matchup for us without Durant than with him. Over the last two regular seasons, we're 5-2 against the Warriors. Our only two losses were the two games Durant didn't play. I think we would have won game 5 if Durant stayed on the floor, for example. Though I wouldn't guarantee the series. My heart honestly sunk the second I saw Durant walking to the locker room, and it's not because I like Durant even in the slightest... Look at what they're doing to the Blazers now, too.
     
  3. Handles

    Handles Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1,347
    Likes Received:
    1,132
    You’re forgetting about attrition. Getting tired over a series is a real thing man. Harden has to carry 100% of the time whereas Curry, Durant, Klay, and Green have each other to lift the load. By game 5 those dudes aren’t as tired as Harden is, plain and simple. It’s not as easy as saying “it was tied going into 5.” By series record sure, but Harden is absolutely more tired than them by that point because he has to carry by himself. CP and Capela just didnt help him very much at all. Gordon did what he could but it’s just not enough.
     
    SuperMarioBro likes this.
  4. YOLO

    YOLO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    46,471
    Likes Received:
    44,648
    he's gotten better. still has the same postseason issues though. the part where I think holds him back and unfortunately is the difference in taking that last step into the getting over the hurdle of possibly a finals or ship. it was already telling when this guys missing like 3 free throws at the beginning of the game that these moments do get to him this time of year
     
  5. YOLO

    YOLO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    46,471
    Likes Received:
    44,648
    being tired is just no excuse at this point. quite frankly, its the lazy route. no matter how much people want to try to use this as some scapegoat. if you really want to use being tired as some reason in the playoffs, don't even bother making the playoffs to begin with tbh. you want to win? then all of that comes with the territory.
     
  6. chenjy9

    chenjy9 Numbers Don't Lie
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2008
    Messages:
    13,534
    Likes Received:
    10,522
    It's easy to have an offensive system when you have 3 of the best shooters in the league. That will literally work with ANY offensive system, our PnR included.
     
  7. SuperMarioBro

    SuperMarioBro Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2006
    Messages:
    3,765
    Likes Received:
    1,399
    lol, then he made like his next five. Not to mention that he was draining shots from the field during that entire stretch. Even the best players miss FTs once in a while... These moments don't "get to" any NBA superstars. The whole idea of "choking" and whatnot at the professional level is a nonsense idea fabricated by simple-minded sports fans who don't understand statistics or variance. You get to be as good as an NBA player because your ego feeds you in these moments. If you're scared of them, you're lucky to make it to even the college level.

    Do you not remember those two huge shots Harden made late in OT of G3 to get us our first win of the series with our backs to the wall? Weird how the moment didn't "get to him" at that point...
     
  8. SuperMarioBro

    SuperMarioBro Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2006
    Messages:
    3,765
    Likes Received:
    1,399
    My god, so you're just going to regurgitate every empty sports cliche known to man and ignore facts. Cool. It would appear we're at an impasse.
     
  9. Handles

    Handles Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1,347
    Likes Received:
    1,132
    It’s not an excuse. It’s the reality of the situation. With the way the warriors are constructed you’re just not going to beat them without multiple stars. It’s why morey has always been about bringing in stars. It’s how the NBA works.

    We’ll all see it again when the warriors wipe the floor with the eastern conference champions.
     
    SuperMarioBro likes this.
  10. YOLO

    YOLO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    46,471
    Likes Received:
    44,648
    Ive talked about everything ive needed to in this thread form the beginning. you joining on page 13 makes no difference to me. especially with the coming to harden's rescue mentality. there were much better discussions in this thread
     
  11. YOLO

    YOLO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    46,471
    Likes Received:
    44,648
    nah its just lazy and the easy scapegoat, especially for those that cant admit harden needs to better in situations
     
    Denovo likes this.
  12. topfive

    topfive CF OG

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    18,933
    Likes Received:
    37,155
    I think that was because he failed to attract anyone else. He had to do something.

    As for the future, it's still the same issue, though. There are only a handful of "equal to Harden" players, and it's still exceedingly rare for a single team to have more than one of those guys. Currently, it's pretty much Golden State, with KD and Curry. Morey's odds at actually making that happen are like my odds at getting Jennifer Lawrence to go out with me.

    If he can somehow get Butler in with Harden and CP3, that's a phenomenal haul.
     
  13. SuperMarioBro

    SuperMarioBro Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2006
    Messages:
    3,765
    Likes Received:
    1,399
    If the last couple pages are any indication, there's no point in my going back to read anything further.

    Harden did everything one can reasonably ask for just about any superstar to do. That doesn't mean he couldn't have done more, but he earned every penny of his paycheck and his superstar title. You need to look at Clint, Paul, and maybe even Gordon.
     
  14. YOLO

    YOLO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    46,471
    Likes Received:
    44,648
    then don't. doesn't bother me. I couldn't careless if you actually read through it. that just speaks volumes of whether or not you're stuck in the tunnel version you're displaying
     
  15. Handles

    Handles Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1,347
    Likes Received:
    1,132
    This general sentiment is what’s lazy analysis. “Harden needs to be better in situations.” Okay popovich lol.

    I thought Harden played well. Better than last year even. He was not the problem, nor was he alone the solution. Without Harden though, we wouldn’t even sniff the playoffs. Need more stars.
     
    SuperMarioBro likes this.
  16. SuperMarioBro

    SuperMarioBro Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2006
    Messages:
    3,765
    Likes Received:
    1,399
    So we're going full ad hominem now, cool.

    If you had a worthwhile point, you would have at least paraphrased it in one of your replies to me by now. But you didn't. Because you don't. Because there exists none. Harden played out of his mind. But he's sorry for not shooting 100% from the field and having no turnovers.
     
  17. YOLO

    YOLO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    46,471
    Likes Received:
    44,648
    oh look being dramatic. nice

    don't talk about james harden guys not one bit!
     
  18. YOLO

    YOLO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    46,471
    Likes Received:
    44,648
    so why do the rockets need more stars exactly? if the stance is harden is just fine and doesn't need to be better in the situations ive addressed
     
  19. Handles

    Handles Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1,347
    Likes Received:
    1,132
    To help carry the load. Have you played basketball recently? **** is tiring. Harden was doing what he could and he had great averages on acceptable efficiency. Dare I say, Harden was out there making as much (or more) impact as KD.

    Harden wasn't perfect, but he'd need to be literally perfect and never miss a shot if he wants any chance at beating the Warriors as currently constructed.

    And that's just not fair to ask. It's impossible actually. We need more stars to help carry the load whenever Harden gets tired, sits the bench, or goes through cold spurts. And all great players get cold. Did you see Curry in our series? The difference between Harden and Curry is that KD/Klay carried Curry through 4 games and Curry was more fresh to take over during crunch time at the end of games 5 and 6. That's the kind of help Harden needs. It's honestly really easy to see I'm not sure what you're missing when you watch these games.

    Morey himself recognizes the issue. He has recognized it for years. It's why he's all about getting more stars.
     
  20. YOLO

    YOLO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    46,471
    Likes Received:
    44,648
    Are you getting more stars so you can put the ball in their hands to close out games? What does that say about harden then? If so, that means he isn’t good enough. If not, the rockets are going to be in the exact same situation. You want harden to close and he’s going to have the ball in his hands regardless. So is expecting him to better in these situations really as wrong as you’re trying to make it seem. Because if he isn’t better, the rockets will have the same exact results.

    what's the job of the rockets role players, to give themselves a chance to win and that was true in both games 5 and 6. So which is it? more stars is gonna put the rockets back in the same exact situation ideally. or do you think more stars means they'll just blow out guys night in and night out and closing out game situations aren't needed to be addressed

    there's nothing unfair about asking a player to do what he's capable of doing. we've seen harden be that guy in the regular season. No, its not unfair to ask him to be that harden in the postseason. if oracle harden showed up in game 5 and 6, the rockets are still probably playing right now. if you think that's just out of this realm to ask, well then it is what it is then. But i completely disagree
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now