The Difference Between Dumping David Andersen and Dumping Ramon Sessions

"They won't admit it"

Oh so you are agreeing with me......

 

I'm not a big per 36 or 48 guy, but how convenient that you left off the blks per. Thats really my point when i watch hollins and miller. Hollins will contest shots at the rim which i think is vital when yao is on the bench. Once again for those 20 minutes or so, the opposing team will have a layup drill. Miller combined with scola will be terrible defensively and its not like miller is a good post defender either. The rockets will be prone to getting killed in the pick and roll because miller,much like yao is slow to recover because of his footspeed.

 

Blocks per 36 =1.6 career, 1.1 last season. Fouls per 36 = 6.2 career, 6.1 last year.

Happy now?

These seems to be the picture of a guy who jumps for blocked shots, succeeds sometimes, but often either foul or puts himself out of rebounding position. Looks exactly like the kind of guy you favor.

 

You guys are arguing over Ryan freaking Hollins? Seriously??

 

Yep, because the defense works on a string. If a guy gets beat,the big comes over to contest, and the other guys sqeeze and box out the other players. Its no different than when a player slides over with his arms up or to take a charge. That player sacrificed his position to force a miss and now its up to the other players to do their job. Of course, that cant show that in your metrics or analytical conference. Pull the stats and check the opponets conversion rate in close when yao is in vs when he's not. Durvasa and I have looked at the stats and they're not pretty. Thats why i contend a charge is nowhere close to a blocked shot. You dont have to believe me,look it up yourself.

 

I sat next to Ryan Hollins in an airport lounge in Portland as he waited to be picked up for a workout before the draft. I had no idea who he was, but knew he was a bball player. I had to go home and look up who was working out the next day and compare the pictures to figure it out. Cool story.

 

Its not really about hollins as it is about the package in its entire form. I guess it turned into that,but i was simply stating that i wouldve preferred sessions and hollins over lowry,miller, and being over the tax. Yeah, i know its not my money and i did and still debate whether les will pay the lux tax. I mentioned it earlier that i dont know if discussion took place to get those 2. I also understand the asset game being played. Imo, jeffries or battier for sessions would have accomplished 3 things.

Given the rockets a backup pg who displayed he can be a starter in the nba. He's not even 24 yet and makes a little under 4m. This would allowed the rox to let lowry walk or do a sign and trade and get a te of 2.7m.

Secondly, the rockets would have had a backup center. Hollins is a legit 7ft er with fresh kegs who is 24 also. He's different in terms of his skillset. He's mostly a finisher around the rim,shot blocker,rebounder, energy guy. He defends the pick and roll pretty good and had some per 36 minutes blk shots stats of 3.3 and 2.7 in limited time. He makes 2.7m for the next couple of years.

Finally, the bottomline and luxury tax. Since lowry and miller arent on the team making mle money and shane or jeffries was part of the trade, the rockets payroll would be at about 68m. Not only that,they would still have enough ammo to make that trade everyone is looking forward to later. Having either battier or jeffries,sessions or brooks,ariza or chase,patterson or hill along with the picks is still alot of assets.

 

Lowry > Sessions.

Lowry already knows how to run our system and he's the perfect player to relieve Brooks when he's having an off night.

Miller > Hollins.

Miller is not my favorite but he's definitely better than Hollins with his old age and all. He brings valuable experience and knowledge of RA's system helps a lot. But most importantly his skill-set will pay huge dividends for us. His passing and high post play is much more needed than the "energy" Hollins brings.

By the way...

- Sessions is 24.

- Hollins will be 26 before the season starts.

- Hollins has started in 31 games in his illustrious 4 year career thus far. 19 of those came with the superstar filled team the T-wolves have assembled. I'm thoroughly impressed.

- PER numbers per 36, 48 whatever minutes is the most r****ded scale ever. If Hollins was such a baller and had potential to really make a true impact he would be on the court more and see more minutes.

- Career numbers of 4 points 2 rebounds and .5 blocks. You would assume one would need some particular skills to have a skillset.

- I don't think it matters if Hollins is 7ft or 8ft tall for that matter. A scrub is a scrub any way you slice it.

 

Lowry is not better than sessions in no form,court,or universe. Miller is better than hollins.

Look at sessions when starts vs lowry. Nothing changes and thats why i say lowry is a caree backup and its nothing wrong with that. Sessions has proven in his starts to be a quality starter. As i said, i didnt bring the per 36 numbers to the table because they dont mean much to me. I feel like if the guy was deserving of 36mins, he would get 36 mins a night. I guess its a way to gauge bench players, but it hard to assume because a guy gets more minutes that his production will stay at his bench ratio.

 

Except Minny wants the immediate cap relief of Delonte West and not a no-stats All-star to play for them.

 

And what if there WAS discussion, at least for Sessions? Would that make you happy somehow? I don't know what part of "the timing was impossible for you to have gotten those guys" that you don't seem to understand, dude. Whether you like the Rockets' front office or not, it is foolish to think the Rockets didn't talk to every team about trading for any player that they felt could actually help their team, especially one who was reasonably available (for the right price) in Sessions. Either (a) Morey doesn't like Sessions all that much in comparison to Lowry or (b) he does but the timing wasn't there to trade for Sessions.

And to address your later point, in which you state that Sessions is definitively better than Lowry, I don't know how you can say that. Sure, it is very reasonable to assert that Sessions might be better than Lowry. I happen to disagree with that assertion based on Lowry's vastly superior defense over Sessions. But to assert that "Lowry is not better than sessions in no form,court,or universe"??? That is just wrong. Lowry IS better than Sessions, at least in some ways. It is certainly debatable whether one is better than the other overall.

You seem to like to call me a "company man", but it looks like YOU are the one making blind assertions without reason or logic.

Again, it doesn't look like Sessions was available until AFTER Lowry was signed. Do you at least admit that? And what leads you to believe that Sessions is a quality NBA starter? That he averaged 8 apg for part of a season with Milwaukee. We agree that he needs to dominate the ball to be effective; but that is NOT what Adelman's offense needs. It needs shooters, slashers and guys who can defend. Kyle Lowry, as a penetrator who also plays excellent defense, he's just a better FIT for the Rockets than Sessions. If you go around just trying to randomly plug talent into a system, regardless of fit, you turn into . . . David Kahn.

Setting aside the fact that Hollins turns 26 during training camp, it truly disappoints me that your honest assessment of Hollins is that of a quality backup C. You're better than that, leebigez! Just because he's athletic doesn't mean he's good. He's T-E-R-R-I-B-L-E. Does it help when I spell it out for you?

BetterThanEver already pointed it out, but offering Shane Battier or Jared Jeffries to a team that just added Wesley Johnson, Martell Webster and Lazar Hayward to man the SF position and also just added Michael Beasley and Nikola Pekovic to play (at times) the PF position was not going to be nearly as enticing as pure salary relief. The Wolves are going to suck again next year; and to the extent that Kahn wants a veteran around to lead his team, Battier ain't sticking around there for more than a few months. Kahn got his veteran leader in Ridnour.


Look, leebigez, this all seems to boil down to the fact that you like Sessions more than Lowry. It certainly can't be about Hollins. And you're painting yourself into a corner trying to prop up that seven-foot scrub. For a guy who denies that Les Alexander is capable of paying the tax, you seem awful worried about him now that he IS paying the tax. And you don't even like the guy (Battier) most likely to help him get back under the tax. I just don't get any of your complaints on this subject other than liking Sessions, who wasn't available in trade at the time Lowry was signed to the offer sheet. So, let's just say that Ramon Sessions is a very nice young PG who the Rockets were not able/willing to acquire, and leave it at that. Okay?

 

lolerskaters.

Answer this;

1)Do you agree getting Carl Landry for $1million was a trade heavily favored on our side?

2)Do you agree getting Scola in a trade where we absorb Jackie Butler's contract, Scola's right all at the expense of Vassilis Spanoulis is heavily favored on our side?

3)Do you agree getting back 1 draft pick, the rights to another, Jordan Hill, and an expiring in theory for Tracy McGrady(still a FA) heavily favored on our side?

There's facts and opinions. And then there's being delusional. They are delusional if they think they WON any of those deals, I'm being opinionated in saying we won out. But if we're going to compare after 1 year, 5 years, 10 years, it'll be factual.

 

I stopped reading after this. You lost all credibility, I suggest you go find a David Kahn cult or something to join. Or hell, start one up.

 

Wow, it certainly didn't take you very long to ignore your own advice. :grin:

 

Re: the excuse that Ryan Hollins doesn't rebound because it's his job to contest shots and he's out of rebounding position by design.


1. Funny how all the teams he's playing on had the same design for him (mostly during garbage time).

2. Funny how other bigs in the league manage to contest shots while still getting some rebounds (09/10: Jordan Hill per 36: 1.2 blocks, 10.1 rebounds. Ryan Hollins: 1.1 blocks 6.1 rebounds)

3. Funny how the Wolves gets worse both offensively and defensively when he plays (and it's not like he replaces some great player in the lineup... they suck without him, they just suck a lot more with him).

Child please, the guy was traded with a supposedly promising 24-year-old PG just a few days ago and all that the team manage to get in return were two guys they expect to waive.

Why do you think that, at the modest salary of $4 mil and $2.3 mil, no team in the entire NBA offer more for your babies other than the "priviledge" to pay $3 million to Telfair and West to not to play for them?

All it would have taken is one team to beat the relatively crappy offer the Cavs made. And NOT ONE team, not the Rocket, not the Spurs, not the Lakers, not the Magic, not the Thunder, not the Blazer, not the Kings, not Sixers made a better offer than the crap they got.

So on one hand we have (a) numerical data showing the guy is a foul-prone non-rebounder who blocks shots at a mediocre rate, (b) the fact that no NBA team is very excited about the guy and no the other hand we have your opinion.

 

Nevermind, repost.

 

Bima, thats pretty much what i stated. Hollins just so happens to be part of the deal,but he was never the main ingredient. I've said it before, i really like lowry. Hell, I'm pretty i was one of those guys who wanted him 3 yrs ago. Like you said also, its not my money,but i think they over paid for him. Now the caveat could be protection against the departure of brooks either via trade or free agency. Its still early,but if brooks makes it to rfa,he will be in sacramento after the season. His salary demand will be around 9 or 10m.So in that sense,5.4 for lowry is about right,but the team has gone backwards. We will see soon enough i guess as usual.Its not like miller,hollins,sessions,or lowry are the difference makers in a title run anyway

 

Just because you like Sessions, it doesn't mean the Timberwolves want to take minutes away from Wesley Johnson and Martell Webster for Battier or Jeffries. LOL. Kahn's goal was cap relief not obtaining a veteran SF for a 1 year rental on a rebuilding team.

 

Leeb I understand your point about overpaying for Lowry. I think he's worth more than his salary, but I can certainly see how people think he's overpaid. However, Sessions makes almost the same amount, and contrary to your opinion Lowry is 2x the player Sessions is. The reason is because Lowry is a good, almost elite defender at the guard position while Sessions isn't.

I don't know why you don't consider defensive ability when you evaluate players, but defense is incredibly important...its practically half the game! Maybe if you think about defensive ability you'd stop ranting about guys like Rudy "Max Money" Gay, that center in PHX or Ramon freaking Sessions. Sessions can't hit the broadside of a barn, and he doesn't know the system we have here. I don't get it why you're expending so much effort trying to get him.

 

David Andersen is a good situational player. He did contribute last year. Don't forget his price is under the half MLE. Rockets gave him up because they got Miller at a higher price.