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The death of defense

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by Clips/Roxfan, Oct 20, 2006.

  1. crash5179

    crash5179 Member

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    But that is not what happened in the 90's.

    Team offense did not improve it got drastically worse. The 90's offense was more about individual play and less about team play. Team scoring dropped, team assists dropped, team turn overs were up.

    Watching your home team shut another team out may be great for the indavidual rooting for that team but it is painfull to watch if you are just a fan trying to find a good game to watch.

    That is exactly why the NBA has been changing rules trying to improve ball movement, shooting and all around team offensive play. The Kings and the Mavs were both big drawing cards for the NBA in the late 90's and early 00's because they were so much fun to watch. Both teams , while never making it to the finals, were always high in team assists, ball movement and scoring. That is why Phoenix is such a media darling now...its because they are fun to watch even if you are a not a Phoenix fan.

    There may be drama from a 78 to 79 game but how many times have we seen those games where there is turnovers and balls clanking off of the rim so much in the last few minutes that it seemed neither team really deserved to win.

    I don't mind the last second shot block or a last second steal but not a game where every time the shooter goes up for a shot he has to peel himself off of the court. I certainly have never liked a game where one team intentionally slows down the game and walks the ball up the court to try keep the game developing any offensive rythm.
     
  2. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    I remember one of the first defensive fundamentals I was taught was "Defend with your feet, not with your hands."

    I think the new "interpretation" of the hand check rule is exactly that. Move your feet, not your hands to block your man's movement. Again, I hate the touch foul calls as much as anyone. But I think outlawing pushing and shoving is good for defensive fundamentals.
     
  3. tchou

    tchou Member

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    I wasn't a huge of 90's style of basketball either, but that wasn't really my point. So let me clarify, I strongly believe that defense should be equally important as offense. Stern disagrees. He favors offense. And the rule changes that he's making will make for uglier basketball. Under the new rules, there's less need to move the ball around for the open shot, since he can almost always get to the FT line. Game pace will be as jerky as a 15 yr-old learning to drive a stick, as the FTA skyrockets. The styles between teams will become increasingly similar, b/d they no longer have the luxury to choose btwn a defensive vs. offensive approach. Seriously tho, having someone on line almost 100 times in a span of only 6 games is not the formula for happy viewers.
     
  4. crash5179

    crash5179 Member

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    I dissagree that the new rules makes for uglier basketball.

    Because of the zone defense I think you absolutely must be able to move the ball. ISO ball is much more difficult now because of zone defenses and ISO ball stopped ball movement a great deal.

    Also teams must be able to shoot the ball now as well because the zone defense allows the big shot blockers the ability to stay closer to the basket and while the perimeter defender may not be allowed to hand check any more or bump his man...if the offensive player gets around the perimeter defender he is more likely to find a shot blocker waiting for him in the paint than he was before the rule changes.

    With out shooters defenses can still clog up the lane which is exactly why JVG (a historically defensive minded coach) has put such a premium on finding good outside shooters this off season. To pull defenses away from the basket.
     
  5. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    That doesn't matter much though because the penetrator can just go flying into the lane out of control and get to the FT line. Even the top shotblockers only get about 3 a game.
     
  6. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    until you allow Offensive players to jump into you and you get called
    for a foul
    or
    people start kicking their feet out and falling down flopping
    [YES PHEONIX . . I AM LOOKING AT YOU!!!]

    Rocket River
     
  7. real_egal

    real_egal Member

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    NBA has the most screwed up officiating in all major sports. It's not because of the contacts in games, but rather due to the crappy rules allowing or even encouraging too much intepretation from refs. It's the only sport, where one can INITIATE contact and get rewarded. It's like saying, you can punch a guy in the mouth and have him sent to jail, if I play it right, or better to say, if you punch him right.
     
  8. tchou

    tchou Member

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    There seems to be a bit of contradiction in your words. Why would you think that teams "must be able to move the ball" and players "must be able to shoot the ball" when they need to do nowadays is jumping into the defensive player and march to the free throw line? A perfect example is Dwade--he certainly doesn't shoot the ball very well. He basically makes his living marching to the free-throw line.
     
  9. real_egal

    real_egal Member

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    Are you sure I said the first part? :D
     
  10. crash5179

    crash5179 Member

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    then the problem is not the rules but the way they are being inforced. A charge is still a charge. NBA officials has been among the worst officials in any sport for a long time. There has always been superstar treatment for guys like Dr. J, MJ, Shaq, Wade even Hakeem was the benifit of some. Officiating is a problem IMO but not the rules.
     
  11. tchou

    tchou Member

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    HAHA... my bad. Quoted the wrong dude.
     
  12. real_egal

    real_egal Member

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    It's still the rules, because it allows too much intepretation. If you allow that much intepretation in subjective matters, like the intention to make a basket, natural continuation of movement, adding that ridiculous restricted area (mind you, restricting a person to protect their goal), discrapancy in officiating same plays in premieter or paint etc etc, into any other major sport, that will become a mess for sure.

    In Hockey or Soccer, the goalie is protected by rules, but offensive games didn't suffer. However, in NBA, defenders in the paint is subject to abuse BY RULES. Offensive players can bump you, hit you, or even kick you, the biggest benefit you will ever get is, that if you jump straight up and absorb those abuse, you won't be called for a foul. That's just plain garbage.
     
  13. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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    I don't know why the NBA doesn't go to the same rules as College (with the longer 3-pt line and shorter shot clock). You want to speed up the game and increase passing, make it harder for players to dominate the ball by calling realistic palming, traveling, etc. Make real zone defenses legal instead of this ridiculous defensive 3 seconds rule. And get rid of the stupid hand-checking policy. These things combined will make teams more likely to press. Pressing leads to turnovers and more quick scores. Broken presses lead to fast breaks and quick scores.

    None of this will happen, because the mentality of the league is that they make their money off their superstars. (I don't know if this is true or not.) The NBA rules are conducive to superstars dominating games.
     
  14. DFW_Rockets_Fan

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    How about pushing up the number of fouls required to get to the bonus? If you do it just by one, you cut out 8 free throws.
     
  15. KellyDwyer

    KellyDwyer Member

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    Semi OT: This column is from the Lindy's NBA preview, too, which is usually the best of the 7-buck basketball mag previews that come out every September. Everyone should pick it up.

    One quibble, though. Of all the team previews, the Rockets one is by FAR the worst. Both the extended team preview (by SLC columnist Brad Turner, who I usually like) and the short offseason review (by Milwaukee JS' Brad Woeffle, who I usually REALLY like) are horrid. Brad's offseason breakdown mentions something about shoring up "Houston's horrible defense," or something like that. The hell? The Rockets may have had horrible individual defenders last year, but as a team they were one of the top defensive outfits in the damn NBA. That's all they did was defend. Very strange.

    And Turner's is just a lazy piece of work. He spends about 30 words on Juwan Howard, and I'm not making this up, uses the word "decent" four times. Swear to god. Dude, that's what thesaurus.com is for.
     
  16. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    The officiating has always been terrible. The rule changes just made a bad situation worse. The point is, sure the rule changes MIGHT result in better ball movement and an emphasis on jump shooting if there was perfect officiating, but with the officiating we have always seen and probably will always see, the rule changes have led to the best weapon in the NBA being DWade, because he can just hurl himself at the basket over and over again and win the NBA championship.
     
  17. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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    One sports journalist ripping another!! :D Just one more reason this is the greatest Sports BBS on the planet.
     
  18. KellyDwyer

    KellyDwyer Member

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    I do truly like Turner. And, let's face it, I'm SI.com's NBA caption guy, so I've precious little to stand on.

    Scoop Jackson probably can't count to 12, though.
     

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