Not only dumping guys we don't want, it preserves our cap exceptions and it allows us to pay Dream a salary that isn't out-and-out insulting. I'm becoming very enamored with this idea. We can't give Sac too much though -- how much is a couple exceptions, dumping Cato, and a couple extra mil for Hakeem worth to us? ------------------ RealGM Gafford Art Artisan Cakes
No No...what do you mean? If we don't lose our exception...we don't lose them, period. We use the cap space on the BYC clearance rules for the sign-n-trade, and have a middle class left over. I think you are forgetting how the BYC rules largely prohibit sign-n-trades. We cannot do a sign-n-trade for Webber (especially one involving Mo' or Cato) without capspace or a 3rd team with capspace....sign-n-trades are very hard to pull off. aelliott...any help here. Like I say, I haven't done the numbers. But the Kings don't need much help with BYC since Webber already has a high base salary. And we can engineer cap space to take care of our end...that's obvious enough. My addition to the equation here is to explore using a Bird on Hakeem so we don't lose the exceptions...a nearly simultaneous re-sign and sign-n-trade could land Webber, re-sign Dream $4-5M and leave us with a middle class. JuanValdez SamCassell and everyone else... If we are going to talk about a sign-n-trade for Webber, I really think it is going to have to include Mo and 1st rounders. Let's not EVEN talk about Walt, when they have Pedraj. Let's stay a little within reason. I'm not implying you were suggesting Walt and Cato, but help me out with the speculators....Walt and Cato for Webber is *not* happening. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited March 29, 2001).]
NIKE, I think one of the rules says if you have caproom *and* an exception available, you MUST uses the exception if it pays the player more money than what's left in capspace. That is what I was banking on: If we can engineer a Bird for Dream to leave just enough above the mid class, then we can use the caproom on Mo' in a sign-n-trade and have the mid class left over. ------------------ "The BBS is cc.net's version of Fight Club," Clutch "I want you to hit me, as hard as you can..." ZRB
Agreed. But remember that a sign-and-trade doesn't have to be equal value. It is a mechanism for the player (who is leaving anyway) to get the max possible, and in return the new team provides some sort of carrot to the old team (along with the cap space they are clearing). I doubt that Sac would want Cato, or Walt. We'd have to convince Mo that he wanted to go to a Webber-less Sacramento (remember how bad they used to be?). I would add a couple of second-rounders, or a first rounder, to sweeten the pot for the Kings. But not more than 1 first round pick. ------------------ I'm about to boldly go where many men have gone before. [This message has been edited by SamCassell (edited March 29, 2001).]
If Sac loses Webber, they start from the bottom. They have NOTHING else. I don't see them taking on Cato and whomever else the Rockets would be dumping on them, including Mo. Heck, would YOU do that if you were them? If I were Sac, there's no way I'd trade Webber. I'd rather let him walk and just start over. If I'm going to start from the bottom, there's no way my first move is going to be signing Mo Taylor to a nice deal and taking on Kelvin Cato. I mean come on. Let's get serious here. I don't see a sign and trade for Webber.
OK, now I'm getting confused. Maybe we're talking about different things. Here's an example of what I'm saying: If a team is 3 million under the cap after renouncings, etc. They can A.) Use the 3 million in cap by renouncing their exceptions. or B.) Use their mid level/million dollar exceptions, as if they were over the cap. They would NOT be able to spend the 3 million in cap AND use their exceptions. Obviously, they'd use their exceptions. Quote from #16 of the Coon FAQ: This exception is only available to teams that are over the cap, or under the cap by less than the combined amount of their exceptions. If on August 1 a team is under the salary cap by more than the combined amount of their exceptions, or drops below this amount before using the mid-level exception, then they lose this exception. If a team is under the salary cap and has this exception available to use, then it counts as team salary (against the cap). Teams may also renounce this exception to create additional cap room. ------------------ "That's been a lifelong dream of mine." -Vince Carter, after laying it in on a breakaway, much to the Vancouver crowd's displeasure.
I believe that Nike is correct, the rule states that if a team is under the cap, then their exceptions count against the cap. So, if we were $3M under the cap in actual salary, then the $4.5M mid-level exception would count against the cap and technically we'd be over the cap. Unless you renounced your mid-level exception, you wouldn't be able to use that $3M in cap space to help facilitate a trade. ------------------ [This message has been edited by aelliott (edited March 30, 2001).]
gottcha, NIKE yeah I think that is Rule #13, (ie. What counts as salary? as I recall). forgot that one. Yeah all unused exceptions count towards salary, except trade exceptions and disability?, it think. TheFreak, Really? You would not take Mo' and 1st rounders? I'd take any tradeable commodities. But, I wouldn't take Cato, you're right about that. anyhow, I just like to explore CBA math.
Ok, if you want sign and trade scenarios, then here's mine: - First we renounce Hakeem, Taylor and Bullard - Assume Anderson opt out of his deal. -So, we're now sitting at $13M below the cap and Anderson is still counting $3M against our cap. -Sacramento resigns Webber for $12.8M (30% of the cap, which is the max he can get) and trades him to Houston for Cato($6M), Williams($4.75M),Rogers($2.3M) and 3 first round picks. *note: since Houston is under the cap, Cato loses his BYC status. -After the trade, Houston still has $13M in cap space. Now you have two options: 1) Renounce Shandon Anderson and free up an additional $3M in cap space. Then use that $16M in space to go sign Antonio Davis and Ruben Patterson. or 2) Resign Shandon for around $6M and then go sign Antonio Davis for $10M. Personally, I'd rather have Patterson. -finally you can resign Moochie to an Early Bird deal and resign Langhi to a 120% raise. After all of that, what you end up with for your rotation is : Webber/Thomas Davis/Collier Patterson/Langhi Mobley/Francis(swing to the 2 spot) Francis/Moochie This deal isn't as far fetched as you'd imagine. Sacramento, would get Cato's contract, but they also get 3 first round picks. Also, Williams and Rogers would be attractive to Sacramento, because both of their contracts expire after next season. That would give Sacramento the flexibility to open up $7M in cap space if they desired. It won't happen, but I can dream. ------------------ [This message has been edited by aelliott (edited March 30, 2001).]
hp--Taylor may be a tradeable commodity now, but at 6-7 mil (which is what Sac would be taking on) he doesn't look so attractive. First round picks are nice. But I'd like to see the Rockets hang on to those, and if I'm Sac, I think I'd rather start from the bottom and take my chances on the free agent market than take on Cato and/or Taylor.
Freak-Problem is, they've got a LOT of money locked up elsewhere. Divac and Anderson both have big contracts, Pollard makes decent money, and so does Peja. Even if Webber leaves for nothing they're still not under the cap. ------------------ "That's been a lifelong dream of mine." -Vince Carter, after laying it in on a breakaway, much to the Vancouver crowd's displeasure.
