There are some few key fundamental differences with the evangelical church I visit, but I don't get the feeling that church reacts the same as a stereotype. I think there's this preconception that Christians are supposed to be imbued with this otherworldly power in order to be greater...well at the least the "true" believers. That has become the standard and expectation, like some sage all knowing monk or priest among the rabble. A lot of the people I talk to at that church seem to have the same doubts and questions I normally deal with. It's not to say they don't have faith. They're devoted Christians, but trusting and putting themselves up to God isn't the easiest thing as it seems. It's not the dogmatic frame critics like to portray. I guess I'm saying I've softened my views on Evangelism in general. I still think that, as a political force, it's a rotting husk of spiritual progress, but I've stopped judging or stereotyping individuals on a broad basis. Not saying other people do, but it's a very tempting association to make.
Interesting read. I think one of the problems with the Evangelical movement in America is that what made it so powerful has also become one of it greatest weakness. By becoming a political movement that took capitalized on a discontent in the US with the economic failures and cultural drift of the '70's Evangelicals were able to rise to prominence but once the political movement it is tied proves it is also subject to economic failures it is taking the whole movment down. Also since the nature of US politics is both partisan and confrontational the view of Evangelicals became less of a movement of love and instead more about intolerance and imposition where the movement wasn't seen as trying to win people over but forcing people to accept a particular cultural view.
Sure, unless you capitalize the E. Then, you hate gay people, want to install monuments of the 10 Commandments in all courthouses, and suppress the teaching of evolution. (I'm not sure if what I've said is sarcasm or not.)
Thank you. It is very different to live one's faith versus trying to convert others. I don't mean that judgmentally but just want to point out a clear line (for some at least.)
I live out my faith in response to Jesus and to communicate Jesus to other people. I am more than happy to sit down and talk to people about him and what he's meant to me. I do hope they see in him what I see...not because I can add scratch another notch into the cover of my Bible....but because what I see has made my life tons better....and I wish that for other people. I think that makes me an evangelical by MY definition. But if it means you have to vote a certain way and start waging war on culture then I don't fit very well under that definition...and I'm not interested in that.
Don't forget support any war! Ya basically that's my view of the movement. It is great that there are people like Max that make people think there are good things associated with faith.
Coming??? I think I can see the rubble at this point! On a separate note I used to study witchcraft, back in the day I thought the message was good, and the power interesting. I couldn't remember the creed- so I googled it and here it is: Witches Creed: "An thou harm none, do what thou wilt." This tells us that nothing is inherently wrong (sinful) unless it harms someone, including oneself. I then read from the same site a FAQ link Some selected excerpts; 1. Witches believe there is a touch of the divine in everything and feel everything has a connection to God/dess. 2. As far as "good/White" or "evil/Black" Witches are concerned, as in any religous group, some are good and some are bad. We believe that each human is responsible for their own actions. To us, evil is a choice, a bad one, that someone might make. 3. Many witches believe that one should never charge to teach another, for knowledge is free to all who seek it. 4. (Do Witches try to convert others) We don't. Wiccans/Witches feel that the attempted conversion of others is wrong. (If someone tries to convert another to their religion, this assumes that the other person's beliefs are not as valid as their own.) We feel that all paths are equally valid as long as they do not infringe upon the basic rights or free will of others. According to our beliefs, the individual should choose their own path. We do not try to manipulate others into our way of thinking, only try to educate others about our religion, that they may better understand us. We do, however try to help guide those who have already expressed an interest in the Wicca. 5. We live. We die. Some of us have children and (most of us) pay taxes. We practice our religion without forcing it on others. Most Wiccans/Witches are not open about their religion because they fear persecution for their beliefs. There are large Wiccan churches, but most practice by themselves as Solitaries or work within small groups usually known as covens. Covens function not only as religious groups but also as extended families. We hold our ceremonies or "circles" outdoors (when we can) as we feel that being with nature brings us closer to the divinity that creates it. Some of our beliefs may seem strange to most, but consider how strange and horrific the consumption of the blood and body of Christ may seem to one unfamiliar with Christianity. All that we ask is that we are allowed to practice our religion without prejudice as is our right guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States of America. For fun: 1. Christians believe there is a touch of the divine in everything and feel everything has a connection to God. 2. As far as Evangelicals and Mainstream Christians are concerned, as in any religous group, some are good and some are bad. We believe that each human is responsible for their own actions. To us, evil is a choice, a bad one, that someone might make. 3. Many Christians believe that one should never charge to teach another, for knowledge is free to all who seek it. 4. (Should Christians try to convert others?) We don't. Some Christians feel that the attempted conversion of others is wrong. (If someone tries to convert another to their religion, this assumes that the other person's beliefs are not as valid as their own.) We feel that all paths are equally valid as long as they do not infringe upon the basic rights or free will of others. According to our beliefs, the individual should choose their own path. We do not try to manipulate others into our way of thinking, only try to educate others about our religion, that they may better understand us. We do, however try to help guide those who have already expressed an interest in Jesus. 5. We live. We die. Some of us have children and (most of us) pay taxes. We practice our faith without forcing it on others. Most Christians are not open about their religion because they fear identification with the Religious Right. There are large Christian churches, but most take our faith to be personal respecting each person's free choice... Some of our beliefs may seem strange, but to one unfamiliar with Christianity it is obvious that the blood and body of Christ might be confusing. All that we ask is that we are allowed to practice our faith without prejudice as is our right guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States of America. Any fundemental differences? (I think I have too much time on my hands today )
So were you able to do anything cool like control the weather? Correct me if I'm wrong here but isn't part of being an evangelical is to proselytize? If "gospel" is good news isn't it the duty or Christianity to spread that good news through conversion?
My favorite story of conversion in the bible is of that of the Ethiopian chariot driver. Philip went to the man, but he didn't start preaching at him. He was told to satay near the chariot. The man was reading the book of Isaiah. Philip asked if the guy understood what he was reading. The driver then invited Philip into the chariot and asked him questions. Philip answered the questions. He didn't ask the man to come into the chariot, and he listened to what the chariot driver had to say and responded. It's a great example of how it can be done. I guess there are just different ways of conversion
Jesus is the difference! and back to topic... there are so many definitions of Evangelical... to some it means putting a Jesus bumper sticker on your car, to others it means loving people who are oppressed or poor or mistreated, to some Christians it means going to a 'Evangelical' church on Sunday...(I even know people who thinks it means standing in a park and screaming at people ) here are some opinions: Evangelical Christian... is not exclusively living a Jesus like life- I've known buddists that do that very well is not exclusively doing loving deeds to the oppressed and disadvantaged of the world- I know atheists who do that is not any personal attack against another person- I know Pastors who do that is not crusading for a cause - I thought the crusades were over is not trying to win a point of view- that is closer to politics is not telling everyone else you are a Christian- by use of bumper stickers, jewelry, and big heavy bibles is not pointing out other peoples sins- that is the job of the IRS I personally see a couple of interesting things in the bible about bringing good news to others- you need to speak and you need to love From a dictionary- a witness- an individual who, being present, personally sees or perceives a thing; a beholder, spectator, or eyewitness; a person or thing that affords evidence; a person who gives testimony, as in a court of law. testimony- evidence in support of a belief preach- to proclaim or make known by sermon or teaching the gospel message A Christian witness shares the story of Jesus from a personal perspective. A Christian testimony means the lifestyle is consistent with the message. A messenger, be it preacher or neighbor simply carries a message to others. I think a true evangelical is motivated by compassion to be a messenger both as a witness and a testimony and motivated by humility to live and treat others in a way that is consistent with the message. And is motivated by love to speak to others.
rhad- you have to remember I was dropped on my head as a baby, I did so many drugs in the 60-70's I couldn't concentrate enough to read the sports page in the paper, and I am not that far removed from my last nervous breakdown. (Just wanted to defend myself when I start going off on witches and Christians all in the same breath- I was a little bored at lunch)
To be quite honest my first motive was to bewitch girls, but drug and beer seemed easier so I lost interest after less than a year. I tried in another post to explain evangelical from the point of sharing the gospel, good news in love and words.
