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[The Bulwark] The U.S. Should Vaccinate the World

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Os Trigonum, Apr 7, 2021.

  1. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    exactly, they can donate them. stop with this dumb removing IP idea and just donate vaccines.

    it's sad to say that Russia and China are pretty smart in what they are doing , while we sit on our buts getting mad about Elon hosting SNL.
     
    #21 tinman, May 10, 2021
    Last edited: May 17, 2021
    AleksandarN and malakas like this.
  2. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Houston Knicks fan
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    "America’s Next Move? Vaccinate the World":

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/14/opinion/biden-covid-vaccines-world-india.html


    America’s Next Move? Vaccinate the World.
    May 14, 2021

    By The Editorial Board

    The United States is well on its way to protecting Americans from the coronavirus. It’s time to help the rest of the world. By marshaling this nation’s vast resources to produce and distribute enough vaccines to meet global demand, the United States would act in keeping with the nation’s best traditions and highest aspirations while advancing its geopolitical and economic interests. It is a moment of both obligation and opportunity.

    Unfortunately, instead of a bold, comprehensive strategy to vaccinate the world as quickly as possible, the Biden administration has thus far made a string of tactical decisions: donating millions of doses to countries in need, signaling its support for patent waivers that might expedite vaccine production efforts and nudging two companies — Merck and Johnson & Johnson — to collaborate on increasing supply. These are good steps, but they are not nearly sufficient to meet the moment. The United States and the rest of the world’s wealthiest nations are facing a great moral challenge.

    Covax, the World Health Organization’s initiative to pool vaccine resources, remains profoundly underfunded and has failed to meet even its modest target of vaccinating one-fifth of the population in the Global South. Without a major course correction, the rest of the world will have to wait until 2023 or later for large-scale vaccination initiatives like the one underway in the United States. The consequences of this disparity are expected to be severe. Hundreds of thousands more people will get sick and die from a disease that is now preventable with a vaccine. The global economy will contract by trillions of dollars, according to the International Chamber of Commerce, and tens of millions of people will plummet into extreme poverty as the virus continues to fester and evolve in the world’s more vulnerable reaches.

    As global hunger rises and global life expectancy falls, instability will prevail. Already, Colombia is mired in deadly protests over the pandemic’s economic fallout. India is facing its gravest humanitarian catastrophe in a generation. As the United Nations has warned, a similar crisis in Syria would be catastrophic.

    President Biden can start by announcing that the United States intends to help and by appointing a vaccine czar to oversee the expansion of vaccine production. The federal government has ample legal power to compel the participation of the pharmaceutical companies, including the sharing of critical information and technologies. Congress has appropriated $16 billion to scale up production, most of which remains unspent.

    Increasing manufacturing capacity has proved tricky. The global demand for vaccines may be high now, but once the coronavirus pandemic recedes, it will plummet back to normal levels. Increased public ownership, for its part, would ensure that vaccine-production capacity is ready for future pandemics, which are inevitable — potentially including new coronavirus variants for which routine boosters may be required.

    To this end, the administration should consider taking a page from the Department of Energy playbook: Create publicly owned manufacturing facilities and contract with private companies to run them. (Several of the D.O.E.’s federally owned laboratories are run by private companies like General Electric and Bechtel.)

    The H.I.V. advocacy group PrEP4All estimates that for $4 billion — less than the country is spending per day on coronavirus response efforts — the federal government could build enough manufacturing capacity to vaccinate the entire planet against the coronavirus. It will cost much more to actually make the needed doses, of course. The nonprofit advocacy group Public Citizen estimates that a $25 billion governmentwide initiative would produce around eight billion doses of mRNA vaccine, or enough to vaccinate half the planet. That’s far less than the trillions that could be lost if the economy contracts further as the pandemic persists.

    Mr. Biden could task his Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority, or BARDA, with setting the parameters of any final program. But it would also make sense for the United States to start by focusing its global efforts on the mRNA vaccine created by Moderna and the National Institutes of Health: mRNA shots are both cheaper and easier to manufacture in massive quantities and should be much easier to modify as new variants emerge and regular boosters become a necessity. What’s more, the federal government has already invested heavily in the Moderna shot, which does not require deep-freeze storage, as Pfizer’s mRNA vaccine does.

    Efforts to dramatically increase domestic production should be paired with efforts to do the same elsewhere. The coronavirus is here to stay for the foreseeable future. If new variants require different boosters and localized outbreaks require rapid response, it will be far easier to manage those eventualities with regionally concentrated supplies. That kind of distributed capacity will also leave the world much better prepared for future pandemics.

    Low- and middle-income countries have been clamoring for the chance to manufacture their own doses — many of them have infrastructure that could be repurposed, and expertise making other complicated pharmaceuticals that could be built upon. If wealthier nations are concerned about those countries’ ability to manage this challenge safely or quickly, they should step in to help. This worked before. The 2004 BARDA initiative to increase flu vaccine production in low-income countries achieved a fivefold increase since the program began. While the work was hard, the strategy was simple: Invest in companies in low-income countries, help them build facilities and support them as they cultivate expertise.

    Likewise, PEPFAR, the President’s Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief, offers a road map for how to manage vaccine rollout in lower-income countries. Since its start in 2003, the initiative has saved an estimated 20 million lives and brought that epidemic under control in several countries, thanks to sustained investment and rigorous on-the-ground support.

    The upcoming Group of 7 meeting offers a perfect opportunity for Mr. Biden to push other high-income nations to also step up their contributions to global vaccination efforts. A global vaccine summit — where world leaders and vaccine makers could work out a concrete plan for sharing technology and scaling up manufacturing efforts to meet global needs — would also be useful.

    Vaccinating the globe will require leadership and a level of international cooperation that many people may consider impossible. But if the United States provides that leadership and demands that cooperation, millions of lives will be saved, and the world will have a new template for solving some of the many challenges that transcend our borders.

    A version of this article appears in print on May 15, 2021, Section A, Page 18 of the New York edition with the headline: America, Vaccinate the World.
     
  3. WNBA

    WNBA Member

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    won't happen. US will do the opposite: Media ATTACK whichever country who donated vaccine. it is what's happening now.
     
  4. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    Serbia’s winning fight against COVID-19 raises questions about ‘vaccine diplomacy’

    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/s...d-19-raises-questions-about-vaccine-diplomacy
     
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  5. Zboy

    Zboy Contributing Member

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    The US and the first world countries should vaccinate the entire world, not only because its the right thing to do but also because they have to in order to win the race against virus mutation.

    We cant isolate ourselves against the virus if it is hoping around in 3rd world countries. The more opportunities virus has to mutate (eg India), the longer it stays a threat with many variants.

    Have to cut of the breeding grounds for the virus.
     
    #25 Zboy, May 16, 2021
    Last edited: May 16, 2021
  6. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Insider Newsletter™ 2X Diamond Member

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    Having a yearly booster would put a big chunk of money into pharma...

    Though I think the further we are exposed to corona viruses, the less novel it becomes to our immune system.

    Probably 1 lethal mutation every 5-10 years until vaccine tech become even more effective.
     
  7. London'sBurning

    London'sBurning Contributing Member

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    Not comparing Covid to the flu but in terms of future treatment I suspect it'll be similar to the annual flu shot. Flu shot doesn't cover all the strains of influenza out there. Just the most common and deadliest projected for the year.
     
  8. DonatelloLimestone

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    Yea it was a bit odd for people to wonder why we used to give "aid" to countries. Do we really think they would just listen to us, allow us to build bases, come to support just because we have bruce springstine or something here ? We "support" and we gain favor.

    Let alone, this unique case much of the research was donated from the government, the IP, to the private companies to make massive profits.
    This is an international issues. For those who don't believe in it, the entire world shut down and lost trillions. Countries that have nothing to do with America let alone still ban americans. But the more we move on and others are able to gain immunity its the benefit for everyone to get normal rolling in that line.
     
  9. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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  10. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Not sure if your facts are right - China has one of the highest inoculation rates in the world. Maybe you meant India?
     
  11. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    According to Google the PRC has vaccinated 407 million which is about 30% of the population.
    https://www.google.com/search?q=chi...0j69i57j0l8.6189j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

    This is lagging behind the US which is about 37% fully vaccinated.

    The bigger issue with the PRC's vaccines is that their effectiveness is much lower than the Pfizer, Moderna, J&J and even the Astrozeneca vaccine.
     
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  12. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    If you had a choice between Az, China or Russian vaccine, which would you get ?
     
  13. malakas

    malakas Member

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    No I meant China.
    2 Weeks ago when I made that post the data I had found spoke of such rate. Maybe they have picked up the rate since then or the data I had was outdated. Good for them.

    But it doesn't change the fact that when in March and April they were sending out vaccines in the hundred of millions of doses to Serbia,Chile, Hungary and african countries they hadn't even vaccinated 20% of their own.
     
    #33 malakas, May 17, 2021
    Last edited: May 17, 2021
  14. malakas

    malakas Member

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    The Russian Sputnik. So long of course as it was approved by the EU CDC.

    I would never trust the Chinese where the numbers in trials are cooked and opaque.
    And AZ no need to talk about it anymore.
    I am unvaccinated until now because I refuse to get such a dangerous vaccine that is killing people.

    Of course I am lucky to have a choice so I can wait. If I didn't I would get what was available.
     
  15. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    If you are saying that in 2 weeks they have gone from less than 20% to 40% of their population being vaccinated, doesn't that undercut your argument that it's a problem for China to be sending out vaccines to other countries? China is pretty corrupt and does a lot of awful things, but your argument here has a lot of big holes in it.
     
  16. malakas

    malakas Member

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    Which is the hole exactly my friend?

    Noone said that China or Russia for that matter are incapable of vaccinating their own populations.
    The point was that instead of prioritising their own citizens they instead sent off millions of vaccines to foreign countries to boost and influence their policies.

    My Initial post was 10 May.

    At 30 April China had 17.4 doses per 100 people, far behind the 71.1 administered in the United States
    Source https://www.reuters.com/world/china...e-else-china-still-needs-speed-up-2021-04-29/

    From January and by 5 April China had sent to Serbia 3 million doses.+2 more million.
    source: https://seenews.com/news/serbia-receives-further-500000-doses-of-chinas-covid-19-vaccine-736883

    Plus they had sent many other millions to Hungary, Turkey, Chile and african countries.

    Do you think it makes sense that a country ANY country instead of using their vaccines to vaccinate their own they send them off to the other side of the world?

    China has hundreds of millions of vulnerable elderly people. It's not exactly young.
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/251524/population-distribution-by-age-group-in-china/
    About 30% of their 1.4 billion population is over 60 year old.
    i'm not good at math but that is over 400 million elderly.

    Imagine if the USA said fck you if you want to vaccinate your elderly parents we are more interested in sending our vaccines to Timor Leste so we can influence them.
    You have to wait 2-3 more months for your parents turn.
     
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  17. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    Astrozeneca without a doubt.

    I would then take the Sinovac vaccine. Sputnik 5 I do have worries about as that was the most rushed and there are more questions about it's safety and efficacy.

    If there was no other available vaccine I would even take the Sputnik 5 vaccine. I think the risk of COVID-19 is greater and while there are questions of safety given how widely it has been used I think overall chance of death from any of the widely used vaccines is very low to extremely rare.
     
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  18. jchu14

    jchu14 Contributing Member

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    I don't think it's right, but it's also understandable for the people in power to make that choice to extend soft power internationally and I think most Chinese citizens most likely supports it too. National pride is a huge deal in China and there is nothing better for national pride for the state media to broadcast how Chinese technology is helping the world. Covid was a big black eye for China's pride since Wuhan was the first epicenter of the pandemic.

    Covid is also a much lesser problem than most other countries and most people won't know anyone that actually got covid. Life has been back to normal for a while for most (all?) of China. The case rate in China is 63 per million and death rate of 3 per million. That's minuscule compared to countries that were hit harde like the US at 110,000 cases/million and 1,805 deaths per million.
     
  19. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Houston Knicks fan
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