8-0 vs the best in the west. a different team than los angeles has faced all playoff long. and there's no room to think they can beat la? what more would they have to do? you said before that the t-wolves could have beaten milwaukee. are you kidding? so lemme see, they have beaten everyone else, they beat the top 4 teams in the west every time they played them, they are the most explosive team in the playoffs, but they have NO CHANCE of beating la? all this and you say you like them? no you don't. that's fraud, TheFreak, straight fraud. tell me why they have "no chance" when it's been the lakers that have had no chance all year against them. la has plenty of flaws. san antonio just can't exploit them. milwaukee can.
Milwaukie would not struggle to score against LA, it would be a series of shootouts. I think Milwaukie would win the series, because they can just flat out score. They don't rely on the inside game like San Antonio, and they are better able to exploit that zone defense LA plays. I would also bet on the Bucks. Bucks in 7, final score of game 7: Milwaukie: 120 LA Lakers: 112 Kobe: 40 Shaq: 40 Fisher: 20 Rest of team: 12 Cassell: 38 Allen: 36 Robinson: 29 Rest of team: 17 ------------------ The Protrolls.com message boards! Protrolls.com! Home of Turn, Tweak, and all your demented favorites!
sam v d. fisher adv. sam ray allen v kobe adv. kobe big dog v rick fox adv. big dog scott williams/caffey v. ho grant adv. williams/caffey ervin johnson v shaq adv. shaq BENCH: tim thomas, lindsey hunter, etc. v horry & who else? adv. bucks COACH: karl v phil draw REFS/NBA/NBC big advantage LA i'll take my chances with the bucks, TheFreak. this is a classic matchup of power (1/2 court la team) vs. motion, passing, finesse, and speed (bucks). i'll be looking forward to it.
ZRB, exactly. san anto can't beat la because their offense is predicated on fighting it out in the paint. shaq, horry & grant can hold their own in the paint. and kobe obliterates san anto's weak backcourt. even with d.a. the spurs would be getting beaten down. the way to beat los angeles is between 5 and 18 - as in the midrange game. that's the bucks specialty. that and the 3 pointer. they aren't strictly a 3 point team - that's too risky to beat a strong team. but the drive and kick, the stop and pop, then the screens for ray allen - ala reggie miller (who gave kobe and the lakers fits)...that's the formula for an "upset". TheFreak, explain why you think la's 2 man game can beat the bucks. go beyond the fact that they play in a small market. go to the players and the style of game they play vs. the lakers style. ******************************************************************* i'll look for your response in the morning. i gotta be up early. damn mustangs are fun, but they spend more summers in the shop than in my driveway! [This message has been edited by verse (edited May 24, 2001).]
And I verson <a href="http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2001/2001/0524/1204419.html">may miss game 3!</a> Go Milwaukee!! ------------------ "Blind dates suck. When they told me she had long dark hair all the way down her back, they fogot to mention none of it was attached to her head. She really did have long dark hair all the way down her back."
OUCH! If he misses that game you can stick a fork in Philadelphia. Milwaukee is the type of team that gives the Lakers trouble because who is going to shut down Ray Allen? Kobe Bryant isn't going to be able to. Who is going to shut down Sam Cassell? Glen Robinson? The Lakers may have the advantage up front but the Bucks are quicker, faster, have more offense and are deeper. Milwaukee is the last team the Lakers want to face in a big game situation. ------------------ See the three, be the three.
Iverson won't sit out a playoff game if he can walk. But maybe he should. No team could overcome his 5 of 26 shooting or poor defense on Ray Allen. If he's limping around out there because of injury, he's hurting the team. ------------------ Bingbong was set up, led to an untimely death in the prime of his life for no other reason than pure malice. Things like that do not go unavenged. Sometimes it spills out onto the field of play.
I think Iverson will play, he's too much of a warrior to set out a game. He could use the rest for sure, but I think if you can get out of bed you take the needle and play int the playoffs. Maybe if Philly was up 2-0 you could possibly sit him out, but they need to win one in Milwaukee.
You guys are unbelievable... The Lakers have yet to lose a game during the playoffs while dismantling the Kings, Blazers, and now the Spurs, and you guys think they'll lose 4 games to the Bucks. This is the same Bucks team that almost got eliminated by the freaking Hornets. You can point all you want to the regular season matchups with the Bucks, but don't you guys remember how bad the Lakers were during the regular season? There was non-stop talk on how bad the Lakers look and how there's no way they could save their season. Even with the Lakers playing bad, they only lost to the bucks by 7 and 4 during the regular season. The Bucks are tied 1-1 in a series against a one man team with that one man being hurt. Let's crown them champions! Remember how the Rockets beat the hell out of the Sixers? Do you guys think the Rockets could take out the Lakers in a 7 game series? This Lakers team isn't the same team that lost to the Bucks by a combined total of 11 points. They'll be able to handle the Bucks... ------------------ "Empire" had the better ending. I mean, Luke gets his hand cut off, finds out Vader's his father, Han gets frozen and taken away by Boba Fett. It ends on such a down note. I mean, that's what life is, a series of down endings. All "Jedi" had was a bunch of Muppets.
SETTLE DOWN, this is now a best of five series. unlike some of you, who obviously just KNOW the outcome of these series, i am going to GUESS that Philly wins this series. period. ------------------ Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.
The Lakers have yet to lose a game during the playoffs while dismantling the Kings, Blazers, and now the Spurs, and you guys think they'll lose 4 games to the Bucks. Those teams failures have more to do with their own shortcoming than the strengths of the Lakers. I mean, the Spurs have been the best 3 point shooting team in the league all season, and they can't hit a wide open shot with no one in their face. That isn't great Laker defense; that is poor execution by the Spurs. So far, the Lakers aren't dismantling the Spurs; the Spurs are dismantling themselves. And for the record, I don't think they'll lose 4 games to the Bucks... I think they'll lose 4 games to the Spurs. This is the same Bucks team that almost got eliminated by the freaking Hornets. Basketball is a game of matchups. The Hornets might actually matchup better with the Bucks than the Spurs or Lakers, just because of their team speed and transition play. You can point all you want to the regular season matchups with the Bucks, but don't you guys remember how bad the Lakers were during the regular season? There was non-stop talk on how bad the Lakers look and how there's no way they could save their season. Even with the Lakers playing bad, they only lost to the bucks by 7 and 4 during the regular season. The Lakers have improved in two main areas since the regular season: ball movement and execution on offense, and Shaq and Horace Grant are playing much better interior defense. However, they have not shown improvement in two areas: perimeter defense and transition defense. This is where the Bucks excel, and the Lakers don't match up well with it. See how well Antonio Daniels, who's 5 inches smaller than Kobe, is doing offensively in this series? Remember how well Stoudamire played against the Lakers in round 1? Fisher, Kobe, and Fox imho would be in a situation they don't want to face if they had to stop Cassell, Allen, and Robinson from getting in the lane, and then having to rotate back to prevent any 3's. The Bucks score in bunches from the perimeter, and that is how you beat both the Lakers and the Spurs. Regular season matchups prove that. The Bucks are tied 1-1 in a series against a one man team with that one man being hurt. Let's crown them champions! Remember how the Rockets beat the hell out of the Sixers? Do you guys think the Rockets could take out the Lakers in a 7 game series? The Bucks on the road have split with the team so many called the best in the league all season long. If you thought Iverson was hurt in game 1, I guess you forgot to tell him. He played fine. It's also very convenient how Mutombo gets to push off with his arm on about 50% of his rebounds. I'm glad Karl had the courage to stand up and say it's too bad they don't have to earn their title as a great defensive team, because that's 100% correct. Iverson played a great game in game 1, and the Bucks just came off a grueling 7 game series against the Hornets tired and on the road. And they almost won that game. Can you really blame them for dropping one of two in Philly? They'll be able to handle the Bucks... They'll have to handle the Spurs first, which I still don't think they can do. ------------------ President of the Mo Taylor and Jason Collier fan club! Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! [This message has been edited by The Cat (edited May 25, 2001).]
The Cat: notice how BGM, The Freak, etc. keep giving the same reasons for why la can beat the bucks: cuz it's the bucks! cuz they are "struggling" against the east! please. give me matchups and style of play. then tell me who wins. LAKERS WEAKNESSES: 1. transition defense 2. perimeter defense 3. streaky outside shooting BUCKS STRONGPOINTS: 1. perimeter shooting 2. penetration 3. transition offense yea, but the bucks would get crushed by the lakers. i'm guessing that you didn't think they'd get this far either, huh? the problem is that no one respects the kind of game the bucks play. everyone wants to beat la at their own game - power 1. find someone to neutralize shaq 2. find someone to neutralize kobe 3. find someone to attack their pf's. that's the wrong approach - san antonio is proving it the same way as portland and sacramento did. you beat la by going to the outside and destroying their weak perimeter defense. you force fisher, kobe, et al to play a man and not the passing lanes. it's the reason the rockets beat la. it's the reason most teams that have beaten la, beat la. you don't fight fire with fire. you fight fire with water. BGM, why don't you give proper respect to the player allen iverson is? are you going to tell me you don't think he's capable of singlehandedly winning a game against the almightly lakers, too? and charlotte gave milwaukee a run for their money because they are a DOMINANT rebounding team, and because baron davis got physical and mental with sam. it almost worked enough to win the series. almost. too many weapons, baby.
The Bucks win when they hit their outside shots. They lose when they miss their outside shots. I'll take an inside scoring game over an outside scoring game anyday. All it takes is one of the big 3 to have a bad game, and the Bucks are in trouble. Ray Allen went crazy against the Sixers and that is why they won the game. Can he have that type of game against the Lakers? Sure he can, but I wouldn't count on him playing like that for 4 games. The Lakers will do to the Bucks what they did to the Kings. Ervin Johnson is a bonehead, I swear does so many stupid things during a game it's not even funny. He has no heart, he doesn't even like starting games. Shaq will dominate him. Rick Fox is a solid defensive player that can hit the big shot. Glen Robinson is streaky, he was MIA in the Magic series, I think Fox will be to handle Robinson like he handled Peja. Ray Allen and Kobe is a push. Cassell does have an advantage over Fisher, but Fisher isn't just some scrub. He's stepped it up during the playoffs and I don't see him backing down against Cassell. The only major weakness the Lakers have is Horace Grant, they don't have to worry about him against Williams. I think the Shaq-Johnson advantage far outweighs the Cassell-Fisher/Robinson-Fox edge. The Bucks can win a game or two against the Lakers, but they can't win the series... ------------------ "Empire" had the better ending. I mean, Luke gets his hand cut off, finds out Vader's his father, Han gets frozen and taken away by Boba Fett. It ends on such a down note. I mean, that's what life is, a series of down endings. All "Jedi" had was a bunch of Muppets.
Ray Allen went crazy against the Sixers and that is why they won the game. Can he have that type of game against the Lakers? Sure he can, but I wouldn't count on him playing like that for 4 games. No, but there's a good chance someone can step up like this 4 games out of 7. They have so many scoring options it's unreal. If Allen isn't on, then my guess is Cassell, Glenn Robinson, or Tim Thomas might very well take his role as the top guy in the offense. The Lakers will do to the Bucks what they did to the Kings. Ervin Johnson is a bonehead, I swear does so many stupid things during a game it's not even funny. He has no heart, he doesn't even like starting games. Shaq will dominate him. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree here. Ervin Johnson to me has been one of the best surprises in this year's playoffs, and I would love to see him play on the Rockets. He works his ass off on the glass and blocking shots, and offensively he's even gotten a consistent jumper out to 10 feet. Defensively he plays pretty well actually against some of the top centers, and even if he gets in foul trouble, the Bucks still have a lot of big men and fouls to throw at Shaq. Rick Fox is a solid defensive player that can hit the big shot. Glen Robinson is streaky, he was MIA in the Magic series, I think Fox will be to handle Robinson like he handled Peja. First, I don't think you can count on Fox to play that well again, but even if he does, Robinson does a lot of things better than Peja-- the main thing being his postup game. Big Dog is very underrated at backing his man down in the post and creating his shot-- it's actually something Fox will have to watch for the whole series, and he can't afford to guard him as closely as he did Peja. Also, with the Kings, Fox really didn't have to worry about help defense, rotation, etc. that much because Peja was their only consistent scoring option from the perimeter. The Bucks have 4 consistent scorers from the perimeter. Big difference. If Fox decides to play Glenn Robinson like he did Peja, all that means is one less man to help double after Ray blows past Kobe or Cassell by Fisher. Cassell does have an advantage over Fisher, but Fisher isn't just some scrub. He's stepped it up during the playoffs and I don't see him backing down against Cassell. Fisher really has stepped it up from the offensive end (gosh he seems like Steve Kerr shooting the ball now), but defensively it's still the same. He's the biggest flopper outside of Flopton in the league, but he really isn't that strong on the defensive end, unless the officials decide to let him get away with the flops. Plus, he is very small, and Cassell should be able to post him up, again unless the officials give Fisher the flops. The only major weakness the Lakers have is Horace Grant, they don't have to worry about him against Williams. Scott Williams has actually been pretty solid on the offensive end, so he could score some baskets on Grant. However, what I wouldn't be surprised to see from Karl is Tim Thomas starting a couple of games or coming in very early at PF to play against Grant. Thomas can exploit Grant quickly and easily-- just give him an isolation and he'll either blow right by him or force the double, and then likely someone will be open, as the Lakers rotation defense is not all that strong. If all you look at is comparing starters, then yes, the Lakers probably have the better team-- on paper. But basketball is a game of matchups. The Bucks strengths on offense are the Lakers weaknesses on defense, and they showed that in both meetings this season. The Bucks can definitely beat this team. If it's Bucks and Lakers for the Finals, Bucks in 6. BTW, verse, if you're serious about putting some money up on this, check out: http://www.sportsbook.com ------------------ President of the Mo Taylor and Jason Collier fan club! Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more!
Why discuss matchups? It's pointless. LA would have the two best players on the court. That's why it would be an easy series. NBA Finals aren't decided by matchups, they're decided by who has the better player(s).
imo, what we saw last night was a special display. I'm not saying anything about them winning it all, but Big Dog said they truly believe they can find an open shot they like everytime down, and Allen said they are unbeatable when they are shooting like that, and I'm a believer in both those comments. I'm taping the rest of these games for sure. I think we are seeing more back picks and UCLA-cuts than any other team in the NBA in quite some time. And it is so fast how they choose to shot, pass, dribble when they are believing in each other. verse, you'll get better odds than 4-1. I'd take 10-1. It'll take 7 games in a row like last night to have a chance against the Spurs. (please allow me my Laker denial... )
Also if Robinson proves to be too big for Fox, then Jackson can just throw Horry on him and neutralize Robinson's size. And if you do that, do you just keep Horace Grant at PF to guard Tim Thomas? If they leave Grant out there, Thomas can just isolate every time and score at will or find an open shooter. Fox and Grant cannot defend Robinson and Thomas. Horry can defend one, but not both. There's still going to be that mismatch... something the Bucks have won with all season long. They have so many scorers, so many weapons, so much versatility... they'll create a mismatch somewhere, and find a way to win. ------------------ President of the Mo Taylor and Jason Collier fan club! Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more!
heypee: their decisions are so quick because they have complete freedom. ray allen, in an interview with espn last week, said (i'm paraphrasing): "too many nba players and coaches are worried about the wrong things. they worry about calling so many plays and which play to run. we don't do that. we just play, and whoever is open takes advantage of it." it's very basic basketball played by 5 pure scorers who can also pass. it is a thing of beauty. i'm been propping them up so much in the rockets gallery because i believe we can - and should - model our team after them.
