I started a poll thread when we got Artest on which one among Artest and Battier is best suited for the bench. I said Artest and summarily got poohed poohed for even suggesting it. It's becoming more evident that having all 3 of them on the floor at the same time occupies alot of space and not enough room to operate when each try to go one on one. Battier will most likely come off the bench when he gets back but I bet Adelman will eventually use Artest as the 6th man.
I didn't want Artest unless we got him for nothing...which....Morey managed to pull off. I have always said he doesn't fit on a Yao low post team..... I hope that they find a way to make it work...but him chucking up 3s is not necessarily a good thing....Ron needs to be wreaking havoc in the lane. DD
and this very comment is why you are a rookie and will remain so. yao have played more than 2 bad games this season.
Long time member? Thanks. Way back when I first became a member, there were dinosaurs and everything was in black and white.
Yao Ming is just going to get better and better as the season progresses. Hopefully he can avoid injury...his biggest impediment. Haters, hate while you can, because there's no way he's going to be this "bad" for the entire season.
Oh look! v3.0 actually started breaking down my points with quotes. TMac640, get on that right away. That's far more offensive than his gay slurs or dishonest BS claims. Just a fan who actually looks for the stats to support what he says. Which seems to be more like you. And my argument was not formed on the assertion that I was so damn knowledgable about the game that you should just take me for my word, assumptions and all. Unlike you. Oh please. When you say something like "if you were to poll NBA experts they would back me up" you are claiming that such people actually exist. That is a huge deal. That means you were talking out of your ass. Do you not understand the importance of actually supporting your claims? I don't think you do. Don't try to avoid my point. I'm not talking about Hayes, I'm talking about Yao vs. Artest on the star big men. On last second shots, big men usually don't get it because of FT issues, or the need for a 3pt shot. But what about the other 47 minutes of the game? Again, your arguments are formed on small, selective parts of the game, rather than the game as a whole. I bet you're someone who is easily impressed by small flashy examples, and doesn't understand that you need to play the entire game. The kind of easily-led sheep that ESPN appeals to with their misleading highlights. Oh WOW. I showed Artest was the second option on his team. Yao has also been the second option on his team, after T-Mac. No. That has been my point against your ridiculous argument that Artest is as good as Yao in the post. If that's true, either Artest is the dumbest player in the league for not utilizing such a skill as often as possible. More likely he doesn't have as good a post game as Yao, and therefore he doesn't go in as much. Oh please. Don't compare fighting through the occasional pick and roll to the constant banging on every play that centers go through. If you are one of the team's "stars" and a first or second option on the offense, then no matter your position your job is to score efficiently. FG% doesn't take into account FTs and 3pt shots, which guards and SFs generally use to score as much or more efficiently than big men. The stats TS% accounts for those. However, even taking that into account Artest doesn't quite get it done at an above-average efficiency. Despite taking more inside shots than many guards who have better TS% than him. Again, you choose to be selective on what you want to deal with. Yao only gets point blank dunks? He doesn't have to go through the trouble of posting up, with a guy pushing him from behind and another guy sagging on him from the other side? THIS is your big debunking of a "stat driven argument?" Furthermore you are borderline lying if you say Manute Bol and Mark West had "great individual stats." They were one-dimensional guys who were really good in ONE stat, and sucked hard in every other facet of the game. The stats agree that they sucked. Their existence doesn't make stats worthless. v3.0 talking about the "whole picture" when the entire time he has tried to single out the most selective pieces of evidence to support his BS claims. The irony is unbelievable.
Whoop de damn doo, you want an award? You use stats to backup a fact then transform it into a larger untrue claim. "Yao Ming has a higher FG% the Artest therefore Yao is the better all around player." That is stupid selective logic right there. Whose guilty of using selective pieces again? NBA analysts don't exists? So you don't consider JVG, John Hollinger, Mark Stein, Hubie Brown, NBA GMs as experts on the NBA? Your guilty of talking out of you ass also. You incorrectly use facts to back up a claim that you haven't proven either. It goes both ways. And I still hold to my original statement: If you were to poll NBA experts on who is the better all around player between Yao and Ron, then I'm willing to bet they would pick Ron. Now run that question through your mind instead of wondering if these NBA experts exist. If you were to ask NBA experts that question, who do you think they will pick? ANSWER THAT...with the answer being either Yao or Artest, do NOT answer with bogus "it depends" or "why should I even bother, I don't know what they think". Otherwise I know you're just avoiding the question. I wasn't avoiding your point. I was stating what the Rockets should do in those situations. Put it this way: I can put Artest on Amare, Dwight, and Shaq and he can hold his own against them for short runs. Put Yao on players Ron has to guard like CP3, Kobe, Pierce, Durant, and they'll run circles around him ALL DAY en route to the basket. Plus you steered the point from my original point of who do you want guarding that player for the last second play. You've avoided answering it but finally acknowledged which you'll prolly deny: It's Artest who you wanting guarding that player, not Yao. Are you going to deny that? As for the whole game point, Yao has enough trouble running from one side of the court the other for the whole 48 minutes. What's your point in that? Cause you didn't make a good case for Yao in that LOL. Your sheep comment towards me is laughable. Try that on someone else. BULLCRAP. Again you avoided my whole statement and just selectively chose a snippet so you won't feel like a dumbass. here it is: Again here is my question to you: Has Artest been forcefed the ball into the post in his career like Yao? Anybody who has followed the Rockets knows Yao has been option 1A, not the clear 2nd behind TMac. No, you just twisted my words and ran with it. I said Artest has post up skills just like Yao in my argument that Artest has the better all around game. Please quote me where I said Artest's post up game is as good as Yao's, which is an entirely different statement. You pulled that argument out of your ass just so you can throw the bigger argument aside and avoid it. And it's more then likely Artest has more then one way to beat his opponent other then posting him up, HENCE THE ALL AROUND TALENT ARGUMENT IN FAVOR OF ARTEST. Are you getting that through your head? It's not "occasional" pick and rolls and Artest bangs with big bodies in the paint also. Yao Ming is 7'5 and "officially" weighs 310, but the point is he routinely is bigger then his opponent. If he can't handle the banging of the big bodies he needs to look for another profession. Here's another opinion you can chew on. Artest is a tougher player then Yao. Don't get me wrong. I know Yao is one of the most poorly officiated players in the league. But I can differentiate between Yao getting jobbed from the refs and simply being outclassed from a lesser opponent and just playing piss poor. You on the other hand, it's all rose colored tinted Pro Yao. From what you have been trying to argue, players who don't shoot above 50% are inefficient. There's alot of star players not doing their job then. Artest's TS% is .513 which I consider respectable to good. Those inside shots he takes are not gimmies like you're trying to insinuate. More times he's driving against someone and he likes to fadeaway on his shots from driving and posting up. Brent Barry has a better TS% then Artest. What does that say, Brent should play ahead of Artest since he's more efficient? And please name the guards that have the better TS%. Again, the question: Is Yao Ming SUPPOSED to be a more efficient scorer then Artest? Given their responsibilities to the offense, then YES. That's not a monumental victory to say that. So if you say something like "Yao is a better rebounder then Artest" then you must take into account the roles they have and instead ask "Shouldn't Yao be a better rebounder the Artest?" I mean Yao is in the low block most of the time, shouldn't he get more rebounds then Artest? And most of the time he's going against lesser opponents, shouldn't he get a large amount of rebounds in the game? Where's the accountability for Yao then (since you want to dissect Artest instead)? I was merely poking fun at Yao's comical failings in the games. Sorry, I have a humorous side which you don't have. Yao Ming regularly outweighs his opponents, his job is to post up and bang and get banged by his opponents. If he can't deal with that, again, he needs to find another job. Dude you must be real stupid to think I was suggesting those players had great overall stats. Is that what you gathered from my statement? Holy crap you're dense. The FG% stat you used for Yao and Artest was used incorrectly (and ignorantly) to back up your claim that Yao is a better player then Artest. You ignored (conveniently or just clueless) their responsibilities on the offense. My dilemma now is should I S-P-E-L-L everything out to you from now on since you're too obtuse to get it. Better question: Why am I wasting my time with you? Irony!?! You want to talk about irony, you've just chosen selective pieces of my post since you don't want to face the bowling ball upside your head of statements I made that you have ignored. Let me repost it again as a reminder: Talk about freaking irony. Need to bring this back up since I missed it last time. Can you support with stats that Yao is a better defender then Artest? If you bring up block shots stats, then I must throw the "stupid, it's more then blocked shots" card out. Artest gets more steals, which stat is more valuable? Block shots can still go back to the other team and while everyone is scrambling for the ball, the other team scores easily. Steals turn into turnovers which leads into fast breaks and easy scores. We don't need accolades to prove this. The proof is watching both Yao Ming and Ron Artest on a game by game basis. Artest is simply a better defender then Yao.
