Tinman, you're absolutely correct. Don't ever compare Yao to Hakeem on any level. That should be grounds to have your account deactivated. Yao has a soft center (Sikma) teaching him. I wonder why he is looking so soft, like a marshmellow over a camp fire.
The Big Liability is already taken to describe Shaqs free throws and Dwight Howards jump shot. How about the "Big Freak of Nature". Although that could be Pippens nose.
First off everybody knows it's going to Kobe, he may decide to pass off to whoever but the point is it's going through Kobe. And you already answered who should guard Kobe. And if by some unknown reason it goes to Pau first, I'l still take my chances with Artest guarding him except for the fact he's too busy guarding Kobe cause everyone knows it's going to Kobe. I bet Adelman would put Hayes or Battier on Pau first before Yao. I'm not really reaching when I say Yao is a bit of a defensive liability in the closing seconds of a tight game.
Are you psychic? Do you even know who I am, or how closely I follow the NBA? What are your credentials that make you so qualified to talk on basketball? Key word: "assume" Please do. Of course if a star swingman has it you put Artest on him. Now who do you put on Amare, Dwight, or Shaq? Reggie Miller's last All-Star selection was in 2000. By the time Artest got to Indiana Miller was already over the hill and no longer the focal point of the offense. Artest was second only to Jermaine. He actually was 2nd first on the team inf FGAs in Sacramento...where he averaged disgraceful 0.383 (raised to .404 if you include his better half season in Indiana before the trade) and 0.44 FG% for the seasons. This is the guy you claim to be as good in the post as Yao? Artest must be the dumbest player in the league then, if he has equal post up ability to the most skilled back-to-the-basket center in the league, but still averages FG% in the low 40s. Because he's a high % shooter who can put those shots to good use? Artest doesn't get as many touches because he would brick them. Please keep in mind that Artest has been a subpar to mediocre efficiency scorer his entire career. Guys like old Reggie, Jermaine (a big man who averages 0.43 FG% in some seasons), Kevin Martin, and Mike Bibby aren't exactly superstars. 3 out of those 4 guys weren't/aren't even All-Stars. Excuses. I can just as easily say Yao has to put up with double/triple teams and dirty banging defense while Artest doesn't. So this is your response to my entirely true point that those missed dunks don't happen enough for Yao to shoot under 50% for a season? You're admitting that you're using outliers, rather than averages? Yao could get twice as many missed layups or dunks and still not shoot as bad as Artest, who I want to reiterate averages in the low 40s. About you using Yao's player type to bash on his few misses, why can't I criticize Artest for scoring inefficiently, when he's a musclebound SF with the weight of PFs and some centers, who is known for putting his shoulder down and driving hard to the hoop? If he can get easy shots like that, why does he miss so damn much? Funny how you deny it was a homophobic insult, then do exactly that in the very next sentence. I find it hilarious that you sarcastically call me "professor" or "Einstein," referring to my methods as "CSI" level analysis. I have done nothing more than spend a few minutes checking the per-game averages, available to anyone on NBA.com. Maybe that kind of effort does seem amazingly geeky or thorough, if you're a lazy uneducated kid.
Jesus, lol. It's ok to combine other people's sentences and comment on them. You really won't lose anything if you dissect 3 sentences at a time instead of 3 words at a time.
What game was that where Yao's knee met T-Mac's head? I'm trying to make a possible correlation of Yao blowing goat chunks since that game... or not.
Nice spam post. Do you have anything real to add to this discussion? Why don't you call out v3.0 on his ridiculous claims and fabricated "proof?" Nice to know you have an eye out for the real problem posters on this board.
I don't care about v 3.0's posts right now. I care about posts that take up the length of my screen and that I can't see the entire thread because 4 posts take up each page, lol.
So you admit that you don't care about someone pulling BS claims, faking expertise, and calling other people gay on this board? Thanks. Me, I find your last couple posts to be pointless spam with no substance. Board pollution.
maybe you aught to read it, cause he just made you look stupid in consecutive posts. Its people like you and tmac640 that have dragged this board down into the the ESPN boards level of mediocrity and run off good posters who dont have the patience to put up with yalls childish posts.
What are you're credentials? Other then learning how to create a username and password on a bbs? Forget I asked that, you'll argue on that also... I admit I didn't know how anal you'll take this (oops there's that word again) but if you must... Just like you assumed that I actual said there were and not the actual "If" part. You twisted my words and ran with it. But yeah I'll still say if you were to poll NBA experts on who is the better all around talent, my money says they will side with Artest. So what if I hypothesized that answer. Big deal. That's part of sports fan discussions. It's an opinion based question, everyone is entitled to theirs, but the heart of the question isn't stats only driven. Intangibles come into play which I guess you'll easily dismiss. Ballhandling? Outside shooting? Agility? Ability to take defender off the dribble? Toughness? All those I give the edge to Artest. Already did. Pay attention. I'd put Hayes on Amare first. Amare is too quick for Yao, especially these days. The chances of Dwight and Shaq getting the ball for the last second shot is extremely low. Someone like Rashard Lewis or Steve Nash will get the ball. Wanna argue me on that? Let's say they do throw it into Dwight or Shaq, if they catch it down low enough they're big enough and strong enough to power through Yao for a dunk. Shaq has done that many times on Yao. I'll say it again, Yao is a defensive liability in certain situations of a close ball game in the closing seconds. The dude is a lumbering slow player, it's no knock, it's just the truth. So in a way you admit Artest wasn't force fed the ball for most of his career like Yao. I'd be disappointed if Yao didn't average over 20 pts, the offense went through him. The more chances you get to score the better chance to average a higher score, so you win the obvious argument award, nice softball toss to yourself. What's your next argument, who's taller? Time for you to go to NBA.com again for that one? So all of Ron's offense were 100% post ups? Is that what you're trying to say? Cause you sound pretty ignorant with what you're trying to argue above. You already admitted Artest is a better outside shooter then Yao. Well if you put 2 and 2 together it means Artest field goal percentage will suffer because he shoots more outside jumpers then Yao, who's offense is primarily 5 feet and in. So of course Yao is going to have the better field goal percentage...again what's your next obvious argument, which one of them weighs more? My original statement was saying Artest has post up skills also, not anything about who had better percentages. No because Yao is primarily 5 feet away from the basket. Dunking on the rim and getting blocked by midget guards isn't exactly my idea of putting shots to good use. Oh, few and far inbetween? It happens? Whatever other excuses you can come up with for Yao? There's no hiding behind those kind of stuff, it's fair game, to dismiss negative comments on Yao for those embarrassing moments as hater comments, well you might as well log off and never return here. You're better off that way, cause it's not going to be the last "Doh!" moments for Yao and not the last criticism on Yao for them. What's your point? Who cares what official awards they won? That wasn't the argument. The argument is that those players he played with are proven scorers and Artest had to share the offense with them. Please tell me when in those teams that Artest was repeatedly posted and reposted in the low block and force fed the ball. Again I keep harping back to the point of if you get more touches and if the offense goes through you AND your 5 feet away from the rim, you SHOULD be able to score over 20 pts. That's really no big profound secret. Plus the fact Yao is a good FT shooter should get him a higher Pts average. What needs to be argued is why Yao isn't averaging above 25 pts, because of all the potential 3 pt plays he pisses away simply because he cannot finish strong around the rim and misses alot of bunnies. Please deny that he misses bunnies or he doesn't finish potential 3 pt plays with authoritative dunks. Need I mention again the devastating shotblocker known as the rim? Artest goes through about as much running through picks. Again, the quality of opponents they were match up against. Kendrick Perkins? Glen Davis? The Rim? Any excuse for those? What? Quote me where I was challenging you that Yao was under 50% for a season (which he did in 2002-2003). If you want your small victory on field goal percentage then have at it. Yao is suppose to be an efficient scorer. If you have a low post center that shoots in the low 40%, then you got problems on your offense. The same argument cannot be held against Artest or Tmac for that matter, they don't operate in the low post exclusively and shoot more low percentage shots...derrrr! Please tell me and board that it's inexcusable for Artest and TMac to shoot low percentage shots and that they're FG percentages should be around Yao's also. C'mon, you know you want to. Again, efficient scorer. That's Yao's job. He's not being asked to take his man out to the perimeter and then try to break down his man or shoot over him from 20 feet out. Go ahead and criticize Artest to your heart's content. I'm still saying Artest is the better all around talent. Are you going to deny that Artest shoots more low percentage shots, hence lower FG pct.? And driving to the basket with a guy in front of you is not as an easy of a shot then say, oh a point blank dunk? You're right, I shouldn't poke fun at the humorless. It's cruelty. You can infer the anal comment however you want, I don't give an eff. Write to your congressman... It's called sarcasm for the humorless. Albert Einstain was a reference to a member here. I was inferring that you and Einstain are more compatible as debate opponents. But there was a joke in there and of course jokes are your kryptonite. I'm still nonplussed with your stat driven argument which I summarily dismissed with common sense. There are many mediocre to average players with great individual stats. Manute Bol still has the 2nd highest per game avg block in NBA history. Mark West has the 3rd highest FG% in NBA history. That FG% career history list is littered with no name big bodies, wonder why? (And no I'm not comparing Yao to those no name stiffs, I can see you would argue on that also.) Using stats to argue one side while ignoring the whole picture is not using the stats correctly. Which you Y-O-U are doing when arguing Yao's high FG% vs Artest's. At the very least the old cliche stats don't tell everything holds true to what you're trying to prove. Let's review the profound discovery when discussing Yao's and Artest's FG% (and also debunking your very weak argument): Yao is primarily a low post scorer from around 5 feet basket area. Artest gets his points from other spots on the floor and alot of them are lower percentage shots then a 5 feet post up move to the basket. Therefore it stand to reason that Yao is SUPPOSE to have a higher field goal percentage then Artest. I'm not even mentioning the fact he's 7'5 therefore taller then most of his defenders, so even more reason that he should have a higher FG% then a diverse offensive player like Artest. So let me reiterate what you still haven't disproved. Artest is a better all around player then Yao. Yao is a gifted player that has major weaknesses (slow, tends to not get tough rebounds...). Yao is struggling so far this year, Ron is struggling also but has made a bigger contribution in each game even with poor stats (busting the backbreaker 3 against the Mavs, defending the top perimeter players such as Pierce, Roy, Gay, Durant, hitting another 3 late in the Clippers game). Artest is asked to do more on both sides of the court. Yao just has to score in the low post, rebound, and defend the paint area. I need to point out Yao yet again got pwned by a lesser opponent last night (Kaman 23 pts/11 rbd to 16/9 of Yao). Artest had a nice 23 pts 8 rbd effort. Chew on those stats. I admit I thought I could just flick him off like a little booger but since he wants to bring it, then so be it. Not to be combative with you as I don't have any beef with you, but I don't feel any remorse to the folks that can't handle opinions and skip town. It's their choice.
Didnt tmac have a bruised knee last year?. if thats the case then i hope yao gets better asap. thats a bad inury.
In all seriousness I hope this is the case of Yao's performances lately, and hope he gets better. We need the big guy healthy.
I think it is 3 things. 1. A lack of a taller practice partner allowing him to basically not have to elevate or compete to shoot over our shorter players guarding him, then when it gets to games he shoots and gets it tossed back in his grill because he is not used to playing taller players. 2. A lack of elevation because he is still recovering from injury. 3. Chemistry and not knowing his role with Artest and all the other new additions....is it a low post offense? Where does he go when Ron Ron drives? I think it will all work out...Yao is certainly a hard worker....I believe more in his recovery than I do in some of our others players. DD
