I think Steve Martin sums up this time conundrum very nicely: "I know we've only known each other four weeks and three days, but to me it seems like nine weeks and five days. The first day seemed like a week and the second day seemed like five days and the third day seemed like a week again and the fourth day seemed like eight days and the fifth day you went to see your mother and that seemed just like a day and then you came back and later on the sixth day, in the evening, when we saw each other, that started seeming like two days, so in the evening it seemed like two days spilling over into the next day and that started seeming like four days, so at the end of the sixth day on into the seventh day, it seemed like a total of five days. And the sixth day seemed like a week and a half. I have it written down, but I can show it to you tomorrow if you want to see it." Honestly, I'm not anti-Christian, anti-religion or anti-spirituality. I'm just curious about the Christians who spend so much time trying to dis-prove science. I don't care if the Bible can be scientifically proven or not. The Bhagavad-Gita can't be, but that doesn't stop me from believing it delivers a sacred message. I wonder how much stronger Christianity would be if its leaders spent more time building their faith up and less time trying to tear others down.
A day is the amount of time a planet needs to rotate on it's axis. It can't be 4 billion years on page 1 and twenty four hours on page 10 but anyways if God is so all powerful why did it take him six "days" in the first place? I guess he was pacing himself.
Contrary to popular belief 500 hundred years ago people did know the world was round. The ancient greeks had constructed a globe, and Europeans were using a different globe with land masses in the 1300's. The problems was while science and many others knew the world was round, education wasn't so hot back then, and some of the more superstitious still held to the theorey of a flat world
Um the Qu'ran(which was written over 1400 years ago) does state the world is round. In fact it states a lot of scientific things.Like "It is We who have built the universe with (Our creative) power, and, verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it." {Az-Zariyat 51:47}It also says if the universe would be squashed up into a box it would look a greenish color, not sure if it's true however. I will look for a site that has a lot of the scientific facts in the Qu'ran
Scientists have recently decided that the universe is a beigy color. I believe they called it "cosmic latte." However, this didn't involve the universe being squished into a box, so that could change it I guess...
Beat me, FranchiseBlade... Yes, they knew the earth was round - and I would argue that decent percentage knew - not ust the educated - because round globes were depicted in public art for some time - it was often an attribute for Christ. The real problem came with the idea that all of the landmasses were at the top - with Central Europe being the center of the top globe. So, they still believed that if you went too far, you would no longer be on "top" of the globe and you would fall off. One extra element to cause confusion could have been the Bible itself, which repeatedly mentions the "four corners of the Earth," has "edges," etc. I use the " " because it has been argued that these were not the only meanings for the original wording - translation issues. Point is, they were translated as such and have been for ~ 1600 years.
I've been leaning toward this theory, or one similar. Start quote: There is just no avoiding the issue. The Bible gives God six days to form mankind from the material produced at the creation. Current cosmology claims, it even proves, that nature took some 15 billion years to accomplish the same thing. Which is correct? Both are. Literally. With no allegorical modifications of these two simultaneous, yet different, time periods. It is unequivocal. Six 24-hour days elapsed between "the beginning," that speck of time at the start of the Big Bang, and the appearance of mankind, and, simultaneously, it took some 15 billion 365-day years to get from "the beginning," or the Big Bang as astrophysicists call it, to mankind. End quote: This quote comes from a book titled Genesis and the Big Bang: The Discovery of Harmony Between Modern Science and the Bible by Gerald L. Schroeder, Ph.D. In essence, Schroeder bases his book on Einstein's theory of relativity. Actually, it's not really a theory anymore; it's a fact. One thing learned from Einstein's "former theory" is that time is relative. We know that for a fact. Here's what one review said about the book (Paul Adam Blanchard - Science Books & Films): "Read this book. Read it with an open mind, or read it with skepticism, but read it. Above all, read it for thought, education, inspiration, and pleasure. You will be well rewarded. . . . I remain unconvinced {by the book}--but that is not the point. . . . (Schroeder's) tour of human knowledge, history, and culture is grand indeed, filled with scientific research at the forefront of knowledge, keen argument, and rich deposits of Jewish learning and wisdom. This book will not be the last of its type: these two great life currents--modern science and traditional religion--have yet to meet in the informed and skeptical mind. Schroeder's courageous work may mark a step toward that meeting." I myself am not completely convinced either, although I believe it's a step in the right direction. There are some quotes by Jewish scholars in the book that pre-date the current cosmology debates by hundreds of years that I find interesting. Their observations sometimes coincide remarkably well with current ideas, and yet these men supposedly got these things from the Bible. Wouldn't that be a kick in the pants if a few biblical scholars actually knew hundreds of years ago what astrophysicists have only recently discovered? "Welcome, what took you so long?" Another book with a similar, though not identical, approach is called Starlight and Time. It's similar in the sense that it comes from the "time is relative" angle as well.
agreed...the problem with the church today is that the men and women who represent the moderate viewpoints (notice I did not say liberal or conservative) are drowned out by those from the left and the right. we have guys like Spong on the left and guys like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson on the right....they're all claiming prophecy, yet they're consistently wrong when they predict future events. Spong says the Bible is worthless...Robertson says you interpret it his way or you're going to hell. I see Jesus in neither one of them, though I do not doubt that both have some relationship with God. Ultimately, they're humans just like you and me....I just wish they weren't the "voice" of Christianity. but please distinguish...the problem isn't Christianity...the same way we're told (though I'm quite ignorant) that the problem isn't Islam, but rather with the mullahs who distort the Koran to preach violence.
thanks for your flippant comment....even the harshest critics of the Bible acknowledge its historical accuracy...you might want to check in to that before you draw an ultimate conclusion.
azadre -- throughout the Koran's telling of the creation story it speaks of "we" and "us"..."we created"..."let us create"....who are the others??? God and who?? not being critical...just curious.
A very simplistic way of looking at the Bible, but it's how I do it: If Jesus taught in parables, how hard is it to believe that the Bible does the same thing sometimes?
i agree...i don't think it's outside of the realm of possibility that God told the creation story in a way a person alive in that time could have understood. whether or not the story of the fall of man (adam & eve story) is true is of little importance to me...there are spiritual truths to me that exist and come from that story, whether it be accurate or not.
Exactly MadMax...I think if you get the message of the Bible, then you're doing good. What church do you go to?
Actually, the question should be "What church do you go to and did you follow the proper procedure when choosing it".
St. Thomas Presbyterian Church....on Memorial Drive between Kirkwood and Dairy Ashford. http://stthomaspc.org/stpc/home subatomic -- yeah...i followed all the proper channels! using a ouija board is an ok way, right??
The Bible states that Jesus is "the Way, the Truth, and the Life" and that no one knows the Father except through Jesus. For one to believe that you have to believe the Bible is true. To the "unsaved", no amount of facts or proofs will give you 100% confidence that the Bible is true. If this were the case, no faith would be required to accept Jesus' free gift of salvation. This must be done by your choosing through your free will. "It is by grace through faith you are saved. Not of yourself, it is a gift from God. Not by works so that no one can boast." Salvation requires faith. Faith that God is holy and just, faith that your sins will separate you from God for eternity, faith that Jesus paid for your sins with the sacrifice of His own perfect life, faith that Jesus is worthy because He is God as shown through His resurrection, faith that His offer of salvation is directed to you. Jesus said that even if people were to be spoken to directly by God and see His miracles first hand, they would still not believe. There are only two ways you can have 100% proof that the Bible is real, accept His salvation and experience His truth personally or reject Him, die, and have Him explain it to you during your judgement. Is it really that big of an investment to find out if it's real?
MM, There are no others, the 'We' and 'Us' are used to glorify God. Like you know how you would say 'We are not amused' ... that sort of thing, man that sounded wrong
First of all let me preface my comments by saing that these are MY OPINIONS about the Bible and for that matter Christianity as a whole. I'm not trying to debunk anyones religion, or attack anyones beliefs. If worshiping Christ makes you a more loving and respectful member of this human race, than by all means go for it. I wish more people could find something that fills the void that exists inside of us. mr-gootan said This is where my problems start I guess. In all honesty, I see the Bible and I see a book full of inconsistencies. I'll list a few, just to illistrate my point. 1)Genesis 2:17 - but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die." Adam did eat from the tree of knowledge, yet as stated earlier he suposedly lived to be 930 years old. 2)Exodus 20:5- You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, Deuteronomy 24:16 Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin. In Exodus God Himself says that he will punish the children for the sins of the father. Later in Deuteronomy the exact opposite is stated. I could list many more, but that would be pointless. The point I'm trying to make is that to me, how can the Bible be absolute truth when it disagrees with itself? I was raised in a Christian household. My Grandparents, Aunts and cousins all attended the same Penticostal church that I was raised in. Sometime in my late pre-teens I begin to notice these incostitincies and start asking around about it. The repsonse I get is the same no matter who I ask. Don't question the Bible. Don't question the Word. Thats the devil trying to put doubt in your mind. How can I not question? How can I look at these things and pretend they don't exist? How can you take this denial of fact and then call it faith? What kind of God damns you to Hell for wanting these questions answered? Do those of you who are Christians not have these questions? How do you answer them? Do you just not ask?
