Divine or not, the "code" was only from direct Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek where the original language applies... in other words, it was nor "de-coded" after a translation, rather from original, historically known as accurate, transcripts. BTW - I have heard that similar "coded" findings occur in Mein Kampf as well. It doesn't prove that the "code" does not exist however. If you believe that the human spirit has always existed, religious views or not we are spiritual at least in part, then it could be quite possible for that conscienceness to echoed throughout all great literary pieces in history. The point is that this "code" need not only apply to the Bible... but that it is noticed first in Bible for a reason... maybe just because it would get attention there first, since obviously even proven in this BBS, the Bible gets a great deal more scrutiny and attention then does say "Moby Dick" or other writings. Perhaps in looking for something more in the Bible alone, a greater common thread to human existence discovery was uncovered. BTW - Other things found in the "coding" include Einstein's theory of relativity, the first Space Shuttle tragedy, the Iraqi ivasion of Kuwait... as well as antiquated history... post-Biblical, yet pre-modern events such as all known wars and World War I and II. Whatever the "cause" the "code" is pretty interesting at the least. Simply dismissing it as "B.S." or rolling the eyes is most disturbing in light of such astronomical volume of evidence, especially from those calling themselves "Jewish" since it was in the books established as the basis for the Jewish faith in which the phenomenon were first seen. Perhaps the very author of those books however knew the cynicism would abound and threw in these modern event "predictions" to no avail. After all, it's really about who doesn't believe, rather who believes it to be possible. I'd rather believe it possible and be proven wrong then say it's impossible and be proven wrong. And yes, this is a Debate topic, not simple hangout material.
God's Word is very plain and to the point. It means what it says point blank, yet skeptics insist it is already "mumbo-jumbo." Perhaps these findings were meant to happen as a means of enlightening the already cynical view? Or perhaps to intrigue the "educated " and bring more discussion to the validity of His Word? The truth is, it won't matter what some think either way. You'll either believe that this really is God's Word (the Bible), one way or another, or you won't. The means is not the point. The end result is the point. Plain english reads plain enough, and yet men doubt.
I've seen documentaries on the "Bible Code," but haven't read the book(s). I've discussed the idea with a few seminarian friends, and they have serious doubts about its validity. They likened it to starting with an answer and finding a question for it. That doesn't mean the "Bible Code" is without merit, but it's not something taken seriously in mainstream divinity schools.
Exactly. If you look for something hard enough, you will find it providing your source material is broad enough.
Only Chicago albums contain satanic messages... "I command you in the name of Lucifer to spread the blood of the innocent."
just think of it this way.... lets say I created a computer that took all known words and names of any given language and created an infinite string of those words and names. ok we could assume that somewhere/at different points all the worlds great literary works would be found. from shakespeare to hemingway, even gods own insipired writings would appear. so what does that make my COMPUTER? Or better yet what does that make ME? Futile is the labor of those who fatigue themselves trying to understand god. Just believe in what YOU can accept as truth and that which provides you with comfort.
I find it to be quite believable that Pentatuch writers would intentionally put TORAH in the Bible on purpose. I can't see it being anything more than a very obscure poetic device though. And, I don't see that such a code could go further than that. Of course, if God was the author, it could, but it doesn't seem to be in keeping with the plain words of the Bible: Lev 19:26 Deu 1810-11 I would call the practice divination, though I could see how one could argue it's not. It is, then, prophesying at least. If he did, as was mentioned, prophesy the end of the world in 2000 and it didn't occur, he is a false prophet. Deu 14:21-22 So, what do are we supposed to do with such false prophets? Deu 14:20 I don't see what the point of putting all this effort into is anyway. If the Code did exist, and you interpreted it correctly, and you foresaw some tragedy that is going to happen... it's still going to happen. If God has encoded it in the Bible, I don't see how you can avoid it by any human endeavor. To think you could is some serious hubris. My biggest peeve is those who predict the end of the world. 1 Thes 5:1-3 (Paul writing about Jesus' Second Coming) If he flat-out tells us that the Second Coming will be a surprise, why would you even try to predict it? You'd have about a 100% chance of being wrong.
Nah.....I thought it was the satanic trio of Michael Bolton, Celine Dion and Barry Manilow who handled that. Schnippppp, hibbesssss, shccchhhhh- Celine izzzzz ze devil, schnibbbbb, hibbeessss, schccchhhhhh six six six ze mark of ze Celine ze devil........................... Seriously, I think that the code would be wrong anyhow. How many times has the Bible been rewrittened down, edited, etc? Any code would be corrupted. So don't worry about it. God speaks in plain truth, not in riddles.
Basically, it fortells events that could happen in the future if we do not do something about it now. The guy who found the code, Dr. Rips (a mathematician), has a computer that can compute and tell him the chances of all these phrases being encoded in the bible within an evenly numerical sequence, and some of the odds are startling. I'm talking a million to one. People are seeing this guy all wrong. He's not saying: "there will be an atomic war in the next few years, it'll be the end of the world so be prepared." He's saying, with whats said in the bible, about the final days is when we'll see damage and horror and trouble like this nation has ever seen, and with everything stirring up the past few years, it's only interesting to think about now. But the Bible says the second coming will be when technology is doubled from what it use to be. Look at it today, its unbelievable. The "bible code" was believed to have a time-lock on it. Dr. Rips could not have found this code without a computer. Adding events and knowledge, and common sense together, and it will tell you (if you believe in the Code), that it was meant to be found, and to warn the world of things that could happen in the future. And I quote, from what Micharl Drosnin said to Arafat, face-to-face, when he was warning him about his own assassination, that the only real choice he has in this world, is "peace or annihilation." Another remarkable finding by Drosnin, is finding out about "the Bible Code" itself, inside of the Bible, using the bible code. When God gave the Bible to Moses on Mount Sinai, he engraved words on sapphire. He translated Sapphire in the hebrew language, in reverse, and it "Rips"... Sapphire=Rips. Also, Sapphire-stone reversed=Rips Prohesied". Then, came along in the code in the bible were: "Sapphire Tablet/Rips", "Russian/He will compute", "Prophecy".. also, along with "Decoder", and "Rips". Farther more, as he went along, he found "Code Key" in the bible, and it was crossed horizontally on Drosnin's matrix with "Obelisks". Obelisks was found once more, this time in a phrase: "Mouth of Obelisks". "Code Key" appeared twice in the text, both times, with "Obelisks" interescting it. A few letters before "Obelisks", he found "Lord of Code". Moving foward, he also found "Lord of the Code", "Sapphire/Rips", Object of Heaven", near "Obelisks"... then he stumbled upon "Code on Obelisks" and "Heaven" again. So now, the next step was to find out what "Obelisks" meant. He looked everywhere and found nothing short of a dead end. Until he looked into an egyption book from the 1700's and found that it meant Pillars of some sort, stones, towers. Another finding made eyes widen when they found "Bible Code" in the code, horizontally intersected with it, was "Obelisk". It was as if, it was saying the obelisks held the secret to the code. So now, he had to find location. He kept searching and found "In the Valley of Siddim". Ironically, "Code of Obelisk" was crossed by "Valley of Siddim". In Genesis 14:3 in plain text is says "the Valley of Siddim that is the Dead Sea". He kept searching to find out a more percise location. He found "Bottom of the world" Which confirmed that the Dead Sea was the right location, from being the lowest point on the earth (surface-wise). And also, beside "Bottom of the World" was "Lisan". "Lisan" means "tongue". If you take a look at this picture below, and look at the south-southwest portion of the Dead Sea, and look at the piece of land that jolts up into the sea, that is "the tongue" talked about, apart of Lisan. It would lead one to think, that what is mentioned in the bible, with the Code Key and the stones, was now burried under neath the clay, mud, and all the salted crust left behind by the receeding Dead Sea. He also found, without any skips, the phrase "Lisan, tongue of the Dead Sea, to the north". Also, "He found the exact place, Lisan" Which would be talking about Rips. Also, more percise details, "North from Lisan, tongue of Sea, from edge of the Jordan on the border". He then found "Map of hiding place", "Sensor marked the spot", "Lisan Peninsula", "In the Lisan Peninsula", "In the end of days". He then later on in the book, tells about finding "Obelisks hidden in Steel ark". Then goes on to find "steel/iron". The only Ark we know of is Noah's Ark, speaking of a vehicle. This couldn't be the type of ark the hewbrew bible mentions. In Hebrew, "Ark" means chest. So he ask metalologists about an steel/iron chest that has been burried under the Dead Sea for thousands of years, all of the respond and then leads Rips to a dead end, by saying being submerged underwater would make it rust and disintegrate over time. And salt would only make it accelerate with the process. But the final man Rips talked to, was supposingly the most well-known man for knowing and dealings with all knids of metal and knowing the do's and don'ts, and he told Rips the same thing the others said, but then he said if the water had high enough densitiy of salt in it, up to 35%, then it would indeed reverse the cycle and restore it. So Rip finds an expert on the Dead Sea and he confirms the Dead Sea reaches that 35% of density of salt capacity in the Dead Sea. Interesting, huh?
I hate to criticize the guy too much without reading him myself (which I'm tempted to do now), but the more I read in this thread, the more I fear for the man's soul. Now, I'm not a Christian, so I'm not too too worried about him. But, it seems to me that if the Bible were the work of God to the extent that this guy must rely on it to be, then it is likely, imo, that he's in some serious trouble. Honestly, I think what he's doing, whether there is a God or not, is very unhealthy.
Micheal Drosnin is not a Christian. He does not believe in God. He's a scientist' who has found these discoveries and feels there is a need to get this information out into the world. Go out and buy the book and give it a shot. It's at B&N for like 14 bucks.
By the way, if anyone hasn't noticed, I am "CourtCourt" who started this thread... just changed my name.
It's about as likely as this: "A wealthy foreigner needs your help moving millions of dollars from his homeland to yours and will reward you with a hefty percentage of this fortune if you agree to assist him." http://bbs.clutchcity.net/php3/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69517
