Wow, SpaceGhost. I have a feeling you're standing alone on that opinion. God, I hope so. I'd like to think that, almost 150 years later, we could agree that slavery is evil. ------------------ "Thirty-seven?" -Randall, Clerks www.clutchtown.com
hp, Your friend is right to a degree - although I don't know if I would call him the worst (Grant always seems to come to my mind). Lincoln himself did have racist ideals, but it was something of which he was aware. He referred to blacks as "niggers" and pursued the feasability of exporting some blacks to colonial islands. However, he seemed to get over this - he was the first to desegregate much of government - he was the first to allow people such as Frederick Douglass, someone who is probably equally, if not more, important to the abolition of slavery, into the White House. Slavery was one issue of many issues for the Civil War. Lincoln also wanted the war to increase strength and credibility with Europe - so as to limit the threat of war. Lincoln could have prevented war, but he rejected a compromise in 1860 that would have ammended the constitution to preserve slavery for good - that is the only thing I have ever read about - maybe there was something else. Often Lincoln was reluctant with rights/slavery, but he ultimately said something along the lines of, "if you deny rights to one group, who is to say where it stops?" So even if he had his own problems with race, he could see things on a broader scale. Interesting note: te Emancipation Proclamation only ended slavery in the confederate states, but did nothing in the union states that still practiced it. Vengeance, Again, back to Jefferson... In 1820 Jefferson was advocating the expansion of slavery to western territories, owned 267 slaves by 1822 (freeing 3 in his life and five on his deathbed - all blood relatives), he made a fortune through slavery, would whip or sell slaves into worse conditions as an example, and did much less to end slavery than other "progressive" whites of his time. ------------------ EZLN
Yeah, and you know, now that I think about it, the holocaust wasn't all that bad. I mean, would you rather be alive under Hitler or dead? Jeez, it amazes me to still hear people try to justify such atrocities. Summer Song, it's nuts to see a thread about presidents turn political. As for my choices, I don't think we can really say. Who's to say that our history books are right. We really don't know how good or bad former presidents really were. We may not fully realize that situation that they were in (uncooperative Congress, etc.) to be able to correctly analyze their place in history. But I'll give it a shot anyway: 1. FDR 2. Washington 3. Eisenhower 4. Lincoln (of course, if HP's friend is right, then who knows) 5. Grant (He's like my great, great, great grandfather, and everyone's been ragging on him in this thread, just thought I'd give some love!)
Space Ghost, There really is no excuse for that. please do not attempt to make slavery seem "ok." Sure, they got really crappy food and board, could be sold to anyone and forced to go anywhere, had no rights whatsoever, were actual property, could e beaten, raped, killed, whatever, with no penalties, and slavery has perpetuated racism in this counrty that has created a mindset that whites are supposed to be on top, are superior - a mindset that has haunted this country for centuries and allowed things such as the KKK and skinheads to be tolerated, etc, etc... Yeah, slavery wasn't so bad. Why don't you volunteer your family, I have a house that can be cleaned. Condemning slavery is not about pity, it is about recognizing evil, about being human. ------------------ EZLN
Space Ghost: Wow. I'm honestly shocked. What history books have you been reading? ------------------ The way to use life is to do nothing through acting, The way to use life is to do everything through being. - Lao-Tzu
Hey what about that angel Nixon? ------------------ SUCK POLICE!!!!!! To point out individuals or teams that have managed to reach the pinnacle of SUCKINESS!!!!! ----- JAZZ SUCK!!!!!!!
Most people dont know that President Grant was Drunk Most of the Time he was General in the Civil War . The Best President of all time was Calvin Coolidgehe just had "cool" name ------------------ "Its a good thing they don't make posters of European players" -Walt Williams after getting "posterized" by Zan Tabak .
C'mon, who are we kidding? (No particular order) 1. Eleanor Roosevelt (FDR's "inspiration") 2. Robert Kennedy (JFK's "inspiration") 3. LBJ (Biggest fault was believing his military advisors) 4. Washington (THE model) 5. Adams (Adaptation of THE model) Or how about, who were the 5 SMARTEST presidents? (No particular order) 1. Clinton (Rhodes scholar) 2. Carter (Remember, he has MULTIPLE degrees) 3. Lincoln (Easily one of the best orators) 4. Jefferson (One of the best orators and composers of speech) 5. Nixon (No question he was brighter than JFK, but just didn't have JFK's charisma) ------------------ "ON-BEE-TAH-BULL!!", Hakeem Abdul Olajuwon, alumnus, University of Houston
Actually, I'm changing this to 2. Alan Greenspan (A BIG reason for Clinton's economic "success") ------------------ "ON-BEE-TAH-BULL!!", Hakeem Abdul Olajuwon, alumnus, University of Houston
The Voice of Reason: FDR was a great president, but the United States did not save the world from a tirant. The Soviet Union played a larger role in winning WWII than we did. ------------------
From my perspective, the greatest President was Harry S. Truman. My father was stationed in the Philippines and was preparing for the invasion of Japan when Truman ended the war. ------------------
steve francis rules, soviet union pulled out of the war before it was over.their main goal was to defend their country from being invaded by germany not to save the world. ------------------ [This message has been edited by dc rock (edited January 12, 2001).]
steve francis rules, soviet union pulled out of the war before it was over.there main goal was to defend their country from being invaded by germany not to save the world. ------------------
dc: That may be true, but you can't overlook the fact that the German army decided to march deep into Russia in the dead of winter, severly diminishing its forces. So, Russia may not have directly impacted the end of the war, but the German decision to march in there was a huge strategic mistake. ------------------ I am very very sleepy.
But Jeff you do agree that the usa was probably the main reason why we won world war II, right? ------------------ [This message has been edited by dc rock (edited January 12, 2001).]
What about George Bush?.....LOL ------------------ The Titans are no ordinary football team. Their team is the best in football. Their kicker is the worst in football. Do we see another Janikowski situation brewing? Please do something, Greco is killing me, and the Titans. Change is needed NOW.
I am sick and tired of hearing the word Clinton. I guess the people that wrote 'Clinton' aren't from texas, cause texas is bush country! ------------------ This is ktfirstbsktof01. I changed my email address, and I put it in the profile thing. I spelled it wrong, so I can't get my new password. Do you guys know how to recover the password? I can't use the forget your password? thing, cause the email address I put in is invalid. I'll use this username until I can restore my password.
is that something to be proud of? Its not bush country anymore though.And i am from texas. ------------------
Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton. Sorry, someone had to do it ------------------ "Any answer that can't be questioned is no answer at all. It's gibberish. It's the jabbering of startled monkeys flinging dung at the moon" -- Scott Christensen -- www.ewav.com