The Best Case Against Arizona's Immigration Law: The Experience of Greater Phoenix

nah lets make our country better. I want Mexico to increase their efforts in uplifting Mexico into the second world. I want my taxes to go to my country and community.

 

How do you propose we "easily target" these business?? Do you think Walmart or fast food places have undocumented workers? Most of these business only consist of an owner and a handful of workers. They pay these workers a wad of cash out of their wallet at the end of the day. There is no documentation and there is not paper trail. Do you suggest we form a Gestapo squad, ride up on every work site and interrogate every dark skinned worker? Come to think of it, we already have one. Its called the IRS.

Employers are suppose to pre-verify. There is already a system setup to do this. Illegals don't show up with a random name with a random 9 digit SS# and a random DL#. Often they use identity theft and some of the more organized rings actually have guys inside the DMV who create real identities in the DMV databases. If a potential employee passes pre-verification, there is nothing more the employer can do about it. Any further action is considered discrimination. And why would a business want to pass on a low paying hard worker to risk a law suit?
Further, why should a business that is prone to illegal immigrates be punished more than a business that has very little change of hiring one? Of course a large crop farmer will get busted more often, even if he does everything right.

Documented illegal workers are not a problem. Personally, I believe they are good for our economy. They fill the jobs that most of the spoiled Americans refuse to do. The problem lies when we grant the non producing illegals to the government tit and let them suck every social program they can find. Its our government that should be doing a better job of keeping the illegals out of the social welfare programs.

 

Almost no illegal immigrants do that. They are often scared of being found out. They don't collect Soc. Security. They can't get many of the other programs without a SS #. They don't file for income tax refunds. It's not easy for them to leech.

 

So youre suggesting they should become communist?

 

I have a hard time that cops are going to start stopping people for the sole purpose of determining if they are illegal or not. If anything, determining whether they are legal will be ancillary to the primary reason to why the person was stopped, e.g. speeding.

 

No - these businesses already get caught here and there. I'm not suggesting a program to track them. I'm just saying it's easy to increase the penalties when they are caught - that provides a disincentive for an employer to use the cash-payment system.

No, this isn't accurate. Employers are supposed to have employees fill out proper paperwork - a W4 form and an I9 form. The W4 is their SS #, etc. The I9 is where the employer is supposed to look at paperwork, but that's easily forgable.

If you're comparing them to federal data, fake DMV records would be irrelevant. They'd need information to match that on the SS # - I believe the government would have age, race, etc of each SS#, so it wouldn't be too difficult to identify the frauds. As I pointed out earlier, the government already does this at the end of the year when you file your annual payroll data - this would just be a matter of shifting that process to prior to employment.

Of course, there will always be more sophisticated cheaters, but this would account for a substantial portion of those currently illegally employed.

Same reason you regulate all sorts of different businesses differently. You regulate businesses based on the potential problems specific to that business or industry. Pre-verification is something that would take all of 3 minutes. So it's not exactly a huge burden for the business. It wouldn't even take as long as calling references for a different type of business.

I tend to agree with this. I was mostly addressing the point of how to go after employers if that's the goal.

This is a very tiny problem. Most objective studies show that illegal immigrants actually pay more into the system than they receive, or at worst, break even. Illegal immigrants already are in-eligible for all the major social problems - they get emergency medical care, but that's about it. They don't get welfare, Social Security, Medicare, etc. If this is your primary concern about illegal immigrants, you probably shouldn't be worried about illegal immigration.

 

From the original article:

In part one of the investigation, reporters showed how the additional burden of immigration enforcement was affecting other sheriff's department responsibilities. Officers were reassigned to immigration duties away from other beats, and by 2007, some residents calling 911 in need of an emergency police response could expect to wait 16 minutes before a squad car showed up.

A subsequent story put wait times county wide at 10 minutes, more than twice as long as the target set by the local Board of Supervisors. Concurrently, arrest rates in criminal investigations fell dramatically. Overtime costs associated with immigration enforcement ran into millions of dollars, apparently covered by federal grants, and local taxpayers spent millions more on costs associated with the arrest of illegal immigrants. And astonishingly, officers in the human smuggling unit talked openly to a reporter about making up probable cause when pulling over vehicles in efforts to find illegal immigrants.

 

i would imagine people in the human smuggling department would focus on the location of illegals...after all, you know, they smuggle people illegally.

I was referring more towards the average street cruising cop. Per the article, it appeared the problem started with the re-allocation of resources...not necessarily beat cops wasting more time.

 

It would definitely decrease the amount of illegal immigration but it's too easy of a solution, why would people want to do that when they could just keep blaming and harassing the brown people?

 

I don't know what is required or what is optional, but I spoke to a small business owner who stated they they call in to a pre-verification for their employees. She stated she knows they are illegal and is more than willing to hire them for their work ethics. As long as they pass the pre-verification, she hires them. Regardless on her viewpoint on the subject, there is not much she can do w/out it being discrimination.

If anyone pays into our SS or Medicare, they deserve the rights to it. Illegal's burden our society more than medical care. The costs add up quickly when you consider medical, schooling, legal costs and detention, crime, ect ...
As i said, I don't have a huge problem with illegals as long as they do not conduct themselves in a criminal manner. Cutting off their income supply will not make them go away and believing so is very foolish and risky. They will find a way to make money, and it won't be going back to their home country. A desperate man resolves to desperate measures.

 

What does an ignorant man who is not informed about the nature of the problems he is attempting to discuss, do?

Probably goes on to the internet and makes a bunch of ridiculous claims for which he has no evidence, or which are at odds with reality, and then responds with a mess of pointless pablum when his underlying lack of cogence is exposed.

 

YES! Esp if they are doing it below the FEDERAL MINIMUM WAGE LAW!
I am not comfortable with Quasi-Slave labor
Sweat shops are bad in SE Asian
Sweat shop conditions and circumstances are bad in SW AMERICA too.

I am uncomfortable with how many people are comfortable with circumventing
immigration law . .. so they can circumvent minimum wage law!

Rocket River

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20100...jbGVfc3VtbWFyeV9saXN0BHNsawNwcmVzY290dGFyaXo-

 

Yeah, if she actually read articles, ever.

 

We don't want to do that. American corporations could not go down there and pay $1/hr to make cars, computers and things.

In addition they would have to pay more to Americans and even undocumented Mexicans in the US who do unskilled labor.

It would result in less money for the rich folks, including those who dominate the GOP, the party of the anti-immigrant and the beknighted Tea Partiers.

 

You do understand that the rich folks will make even more money if they have more middle class people to sell their stuff to, right? They would love for Mexico to be 2nd world instead of 3rd world.

 

Do you actually think the typical undocumented lawn guy on a crew makes $15/hr?