Still see the trade as heavily lopsided, but I have accepted it. We still brought someone in that will help our team, even if we may have given up something special.
Exactly. The vote reflects the "what have you done lately" point of view. What if Battier had gotten cut from the Team instead of Bowen? Would that put a different spin on how people feel about the trade. In the long run this is going to be a bad deal for the Rockets if Gay becomes a respectible NBA player. We need to run this pole again at season's end.
I stand by what I said before. I think Shane Battier is a very good fit here in Houston, however I would not to do that deal again. I would've dealt Swift, Luther and #32 for him, but not Rudy. I wanted to keep Rudy, I thought we had a destiny and something special in landing Rudy Gay at #8, none of this "if he was so special, why'd he fall to 8", well why did Stockton land to 14 or 16, so many other sleepers. Fact is we COULD have endorsed something truly amazing.. in a great future AND present. I thought we gave up too much, and felt we need some more athleticism ..1 more athletic wing + 1 more athletic big. I was hoping for Lorenzen, who's a definite upgrade over nearly all of our bigs in terms of athleticism. I like the Snyder pick up, but if he's the most athletic player we have in terms of displaying it we are in trouble. This small ball lineup, easily could've worked with Gay, with him slicing some at the 4, 2 and 3. Right now he has the defensive abilities, and the IQ(not the smartest person, but nonetheless a smart player), to at least be an impact on defense, so if he was indeed a bust, he'd be an offensive bust with at least defense. I hate this whole pack-it-in scheme for this 1-3 year window. I want to have a 1-10 year window and that was our potential with Rudy, who'd be 22, when Yao was 29 and Tracy was 30. If we are only building for 1-3 years, imagine our team in 4 years, we'll have literally no team. We'll need more fixtures then. Would I have done the trade? Simple.No. Would I have wanted Battier here? Simple. Yes. But not at that price, Swift, Luther #32 or future first would've done it, but not Rudy Gay. I wanted to see Rudy. As for Swfit, I remain as one of his believers, I don't really care if a few coaches couldn't get the best of him, it seems as if he's under strong disciplinary coaches with a very old-style that are not adept or adjusting to the scheme of thier players, instead making them adjust to thier scheme of style. Something I was very shocked Riley completed, he had Walker & Williams, two horrible defensive players, cancers, and you can never win with them. He realized his defense wasn't that great, he went against his belief and actually played zone. Make adjustments to your personnel at a stable point, but not to it's ONLY point.
I see your logics, but with (only) Battier as our new addition, this team isn't exactly a drastically improved team over the 04-05 team when they won 51 games and lost in the first round. No doubt the Rockets are going to win more next year bc Yao and T-Mac are healthy again, but it's somewhat false to say they've improved a lot bc the main reason we knew the Rockets stunk last season was bc our two stars were gone for big portions of time last year due to injuries. Take away the top 2 players off any team and they're going to struggle a lot too. Even if we had signed Mike James, there's no chance he'd play the same he did in Toronto. The reason his stats were so good was mostly bc of the style of play the Raps play (up & down, little def.) and bc there wasn't any other guards on his team who could play. Now, he's 2 years older than he was when he was on the team last time, and he isn't exactly starter material (to me) on a contender. Our other additions JL3, Novak, Azbuike, Snyder, V Span aren't giong to get a lot of shine this year. Snyder, most likely will play the most at about 25-30 mins., but the rest will probably play a COMBINED average 0f 30-35 mins. per game, almost exclusively off the bench. I don't really like this offseason thus far, bc there still not legitimate contenders despite what many of you think. I hope they continue to do some changes bc right now, they don't seem to have improved much from 2-3 years ago.
You can't just add 2 player's stats and say thats what we deserve in return from one player. So if we package Ryan Bowen, Juwan Howard, and Rafer that equals to about 25 pts a game. So we should expect to get Duncan in return since he averages approx. 25 pts a game over the last 2 years. That makes no sense. You can't use that in your argument. Battier gives you more quality minutes and will get you more in less minutes. I like the trade ALOT!! I think it makes us a winner now rather than waiting for future. Howerver, I think we could have gotten a 2nd round pick at least, and maybe a conditional 1st for next year from Memphis if we bargained. I think we gave in too quick at their demands. Still i'm exicted about this year.
Great post! I think Gay would have brought excitement to the team and that puts butts in the seats. He would have been a nice fit in Houston. I like your comments on Swift also. He would be a great fit for a team like the Nets or the Suns. For the price he produced just fine for the Rockets. Riley finally saw the need to change and he was rewarded with a title. JVG is still a long way from admitting he needs to change to win. He'll be coaching another team by the time he comes around.
You haven't made a coherent valid argument yet, yet you stoop to call other people rookies. You've basically conceded the argument...
I love having a player like Battier on the team, but I still believe we gave up way to much. I really think CD and Morey should have forced the Grizzlies to throw in at least their 2006 1st round pick or a future pick on top of Battier for #8 Gay and Stro. This team still needs extra bodies. The Logo was so happy and ecstatic after this draft, it made me sick. For now though you really gotta think that Battier is worth at least 4 to 8 extra wins this upcoming season and he will probably vault this team to one of the top defenses in the league. He is Gollums wet dream.
No disrespect to Battier, I just don't see him as a great 1 on 1 defensive player. They can say all they want, and fix it up to be great and benefical, but fact is he always seems to get beat by perimeter players. However, his rotational defense, in terms of switching off and cutting in, flopping, etc. Now that will help our already tremendous defense.
Really and who is the supreme authority on deciding what's coherent or valid. Is that your role here on the BBS to define what a valid argument is? We all have opinions and if don't agree with mine than so be it, but I don't think any of us are in a position to say what a valid argument is. I feel the Rockets got their heads handed to them by the logo and if you feel different than that’s fine.
Wrong again. You clearly lose and have conceded this argument. You never bothered to counter my argument, instead you redirect the argument to another unrelated area and resort to name calling. If this were a debate contest, I just sent you to school. Sure it's OK that people have different opinions, but if they can't justify and defend them (i.e. debate effectively) their arguments lose weight and their opinions are ignored.
I was furious when this trade came down. I wrote a letter to the Rockets telling them that I would not be renewing my season tickets! However, after some time to cool off, I do think that this trade makes us better for THIS SEASON (so I went ahead and re-upped on my tickets for this year). It's basically like playing the slots. If you hit a jackpot and win $100 you are happy. Some people will pocket their winnings while others will want to try to play and win a larger payout. Which is better- $100 in your hands or the chance that you might win $1000 or more? We just won't know until we see how Gay pans out (or how Battier plays here). If Battier get's hurt and turns into a guy like Bob Sura (who is a great fit but just barely gave us much time on the court), then even a mediocre Gay would've been better. If Gay turns into a superstar, then Gay would've been better (and stop with all the- Gay will take years to develop- don't you guys think that Dwayne Wade or Carmelo Anthony could've helped us in their second season as a pro)? Bottom line for me is that I like the thrill of gambeling and I would have liked to have experienced the excitement to see if Gay would blossom into a star. Thus, I still vote that the trade was Bad for us. That being said, I like our chances this season if everyone stays healthy (and we can get just one big physical PF/C).
This is a forum where free speech is practiced, so no I don't feel obligated to defend my points of view. If you do than that's you, but I post here for fun not to gather popular support for my views of the sports world. The world consists of shades of grey everything is not black or white.
If that trade doesn't work out, do you guys think Gay is gonna be a superstar with T-Mac in rockets? I dont think so...
i like the trade so much, I would have sex with it, marry it, and raise a whole bunch of trades like it.
Hey do you all think that West demanded Swift be included in the trade? I cant imagine the rox offered gay for battier and West said no deal unless Swift was included. I think it was the other way around cuz it doesnt seem like the Grizz really want stro back. I think West offered battier for gay and the rox said it would be done but only if they could unload stro as well. I could be wrong but it seems including stro was more of a dump on the rox part then a steal by the grizz. As for other thougths on stro, i agree on the right team he could do pretty good. However as long as we have yao we can not be that kind of team that runs up and down all game so i think getting rid of him was the right thing to do. Personally I like the trade. Even if gay becomes a good player, I dont know if he would ever fit in as well with the Rox as battier will.
Those of you who said "I like Battier but hate the trade", what do you think is the fair/realistic price for getting Battier? If you think the Rockets could have gotten Battier with something less than a 20 mpg player and a 8th overall pick, I'd like to know how. Thanks.
It is the simple logistics of making a trade. The Rockets are over the cap and therefore had to match salaries.
