I've watched every second of every WC game thus far, and in particular Battier's play due to his "Rocket" status. If you don't think he's affected the outcome of games, you simply haven't watched the games closely. The following do not show up in stat sheets, yet in almost every instance, they led to a score for Team USA: Tipping the ball out to a teammate following a missed shot (he had 3 of those against Germany that led directly to points); Saving a ball going out of bounds to a teammate (several in games against Italy, Senegal, and Germany); Taking a charge from the opposing team (didn't keep exact statistics, but I can say with confidence that he's caused more offensive fouls from the opposition than anyone on Team USA, including one with Italy that broke a scoring run); 3-point shooting (well, he did poorly today, but he's been arguable their highest percentage shooter. Not the best- I think you'd have to give that to Carmelo, Joe Johnson, or Hinrich). He has most definitely had a positive effect on Team USA. The commentators don't make these things up about his intangibles being a factor- all you have to do is watch the games. The Rox just need 1 more starting piece and 1-2 improvements on the bench, and they're contenders. You can win with Yao, McGrady, Battier, Howard, and Alston as your starting 5 if you replace either Howard or Alston with a high-quality starter (not a superstar, but a better player than either). It's OK to have 1 weak link, but you can't have 2.
I think Battier did a much better job on providing some defense on Dirk, but he isn't nearly as good as what Tracy does. Fact is, with Avery's offensive schemes and the worries of a Stackhouse, Terry or Howard beating us, the pressure on Dirk won't be as high octane. And if we indeed put Battier on Dirk, we will again be defeated. Battier does a very solid job for any team he is in, he's a great piece to have, but ultimately the fans rooting for specific games or occasions in a game don't understand the 82-game, 48-minute per concept. It seems as if, 'what are you doing now' type thing. That's why all these specific matchups don't fascinate me, him guarding Dirk was good, but the team played a bigger role on that and dirk's teammates aren't as good as the Mavericks players. To all the fans, raving about this past 3 weeks on Battier, I think he'll be the same type of player for us, more of an 'intangible' piece, fact is we are still missing an option that can put the ball on the floor and score, that's proven in the NBA( I see Vassillis and his driving game, it's beautiful-- but he hasn't proved it in the NBA, I hope he does.) And this Battier to Team USA ****, you don't see Rudy or Swift there. Well I guess since I don't see T-Mac invited neither, he isn't good also. That logic is inevitable in the circumstances, I don't see Bargnani playing for Italy, he's a sure-bust. Hell, I don't see any rookie on that team nor invited, I guess no rookie in the draft class is better than Battier.Every player, but Battier, has been on the All-Star team before. However, my only hope in believing this trade was good, is since Van Gundy is the worst developer of all-time, so he would've never let Rudy shine by power. I don't need a fan on CC.net telling me the hope of a bust is the same of a steal, I see Jerry West dealing for him, I see that as a scare. Sure, drafting wise he's been just about **** for Memphis, but last time I checked he did get that team to a 50-win mark consistently, right? He wouldn't deal Battier easily AT ALL, the fact he did it for Rudy leads me to be very suspectible about it. He wouldn't send Battier + 1st for Artest, makes me wonder why he'd deal Battier for Gay + Swift, if he doesn't think Gay will be at least a very solid player. On top of that, they saved in re-signing Lorenzen, and got a big man included.
Nice summary and analysis, dandorotik. I fully agree. After watching Battier in the WC, I am really looking forward to seeing him play with Yao and T-Mac this upcoming season. I just hope I'll get to see a couple of games in person.
EXACTLY....... Battier was the guy that got Nowitzki into all sorts of troubles with his hustle and no nonsense defense; Nowitzki uncharacterically had lots of turnovers, scored only 15 points, and eventually got into early fouls by the end of 1H, which eventually lead to USA overcoming the tough Germans in 2H. He did a hell of job on shutting down Nowitzki....
Well, you may not need "a fan on CC.net telling me..." something, but it certainly seems that you need Jerry West to make a decision for it to "scare you." I mean, he's had such a stellar record with draft picks on the Grizzlies, and his trade last year certainly hurt Miami a great deal. But, you know, it's not they have a 0-12 playoff record or anything like that. It's not like we've won more playoff games in Van Gundy's 1st year than they've won in their franchise history or anything like that. But you go on fearing the logo. As for me, the only logo I fear is the one with Daniels at the end, Jack at the front, and ****in! in the middle.
Again, Jerry West hasn't done much in terms of drafting for Grizzlies, but fact is all-around he has been a miracle worker, he did get Memphis to above 50 wins for the past 3 seasons, do you agree? Do you agree prior to his arrival, the Grizzlies were in a dismal situation? Also, when he does have a high selection, he usually does use it perfectly. But again, a fan on Cf.net indirectly comparing his knowledge to be superior than West's. On top of that, also questioning his track record? Speak for yourself, but if you are going to tell me Jerry West isn't someone worthy of questioning, you haven't seen much in the NBA lately. Hell, if I wanted to believe a Cf.net person over West, I'd probably go to the roots & authority of this place. Here's an example: Link I'm not saying the writer & my opinion are the one's of most worthy, however, any average to high fan of the NBA knows Jerry West. They know he's a remarkable GM. Spit or whatever on the 'logo', but your criteria will never meet up to his. Hate to break it to you, if you haven't realized yet.
If I'm right McGrady had made it know before that he is not interested in International basketball. I read it somewhere but I can't remember the article. As for Bargnani, Italy is upset that he refused to join the team. He may not be a sure bust but it is definitely not Italy decision not to include him. As for the your theory that the rookies are not better than Battier because they are not invited. Yes, I believe so at this stage anyway. The Rookies still have to prove they are better than Battier and not before. Same for Rudy Gay, he has yet to prove himself. Swift? Oh yeah, he did prove himself for the last few seasons.
I find it astonishing that almost 2/3 actually think this was a good trade for the Rockets either as a right now deal or for the future. Shane Battier is a good player with a decent contract. However, if he is your third best player, you are not a contender. There are 6 true contenders in the league: Miami, Detroit, Cleveland, San Antonio, Dallas and Phoenix. He would not be the third best player on any of those teams. People who argue against this trade on the board are going to run into the same problem I have dealt with for the last 2 seasons when advocating Shane Battier should be traded. He plays hard and he hustles, he does just enough to make him credible. He works the media so they give him a pass. However, he is really a mediocre NBA player whose rep is bigger than his game and contributions. However, for some reason expectations are so low for him that his contributions are magnified and glorified. For every charge he takes, he commits 2 horrible fouls on the perimeter due to poor lateral movement, over aggression, or being over matched athletically. HE IS A GOOD PLAYER. However, his ceiling is real low. WYSIWYG. If you are thinking he is a Dirk stopper, prepare for disappointment. He also will NOT be the Rockets third option at least you better hope not. He wasn't the Grizzlies third option...think about that. Also Rudy Gay has been training with Mike Miller since shortly after summer league was over. He is a good kid and not a knucklehead. Since track records are being discussed...when was the last time Jim Calhoun and UCONN sent a player into the league that UNDERperformed their draft position? Rudy Gay will be better than Battier by seasons end and I am willing to wager that this poll redone in April will be the exact opposite in results.
Cleveland: Not a contender. Miami: So you're saying that Haslem or Walker or Posey is better than Battier? Debatable. San Antonio: Agree Dallas: Agree, but they don't have the 2nd dominant superstar. Besides, most teams' 3rd best player would be the 5th or 6th on the Mavs. Detroit: See Dallas Phoenix: Depends on how Amare returns. But, even without him, agreed. Again, most teams' 3rd best player would be #5 on the Suns. What really matters, anyway, is Miami, since they are the reigning champions. And if you're going to tell me that Haslem, Walker, Williams, or Posey are unequivocably better than Battier, well, that's your right. Hmmm.
That's great to hear and all but when we're talking Dirk vs. Battier I can't help but recall how bad Dirk abused him in the playoffs. Hopefully we've seen the last of that.......
Dude we already know that the only thing Rudy Gay can do for us is dunk the ball! he does not posess a good jump shot. We had that experiment with Stromile Swift.. didnt work out did it? Rudy Gay is gonna be the next Stromile Swift/Kenyon Martin though I dont even think he dunks as well.
its hilarious, all you have to do is look at dirk's stats against memphis from the last few actual nba seasons to see he isn't a dirk stopper. look at last year's playoffs, what's going on in the world championships is irrelevant to the upcoming rockets season. on the national team, battier has nothing to do but concentrate on stopping battier. but on this team, concentrating on battier and scoring one point ain't gonna cut it. so I don't care if he had a great game or not, which I still doubt, its irrelevant. we have actual data from actual nba games agains dirk nowitzki to make judgements on.
Yea, they are better. Shane Battier wouldn't start for....Phoenix, Dallas, SA, Detroit, Chicago, Miami, LA Clippers or Sacramento...yet alone be their 3rd best player. He wasn't Memphis' 3rd best player until Stoudamire got hurt and even then im not sure he was...either him or Eddie Jones. I just dont understand how Rocket fans can witness the season Houston just had with Yao and McGrady getting absolutely no help from this talentless squad and be in support of this trade. it makes no sense. Last season we were convinced that Stro' would shake his past and be better for Houston. Half way through the season we realized he is what he is and has been for 5 years. The exact same thing can be said for battier. In his 5 seasons he hasn't shown the ability to be a realible scorer. He has shown the ability to be a great rebounder. He hasn't shown the ability to play PF full time. He is what he is and that isn't good enough for Houston to be a contender. I'll just keep saying "wait until January." By then you'll see just how average he is. Its like Houston has found a way to beat the system. Other teams win championships with talent and depth but Houston is building one with inexperience and intangibles. Great offseason
the one thing rockets fans have to realize is that this trade was probably made with the expectation of signing Mike James. when that didn't happen, it made this trade bad. the rockets needed to focus on getting a third legitimate offensive threat before the needed to focus on "role" players. the thing rockets fans have to hope for is that snyder takes a leap in production.
who cares if he's a dirk stopper, i'm sure tracy willl guard dirk anyways, and i do believe that battier would start on many teams, the guy is an under rated player - case and point, the worlds - .
Typical fan who exaggerates the shortcomings of their team. OK, we need improvements, but "talentless"? OK, MJ, thanks for the insight. Come January, we'll see indeed. It's all about the record.
Battier can hit the open three and he's a beast on defense he is not here to make us contenders thats what Yao and McGrady is for and Battier is here to help them
