People in the market are betting that something (possibly this bill... it is still open for voting) is going to be passed and the market will then go way up. They are bargain hunting, buying cheap and hoping to make a killing. if this really does go down to defeat, no telling how far down the DOW will go. Could be a record.
You understand that our economy can't function unless there's adequate liquidity in the capital markets, right? Now isn't the time to point fingers.
That's just a dumb thing to say, the strong possibility for the entire economy to go down the tube is OK for you as long as the repubs are going to suffer?
Oh please, spare me the bullsh-t high horse. I'm watching my parents (and my) 401k balance and IRA's go down the toilet, as well as my personal account. I don't belong to a country club and neither do they...I have the luxury of waiting awhile to hopefully see it come back, they don't and nor do a lot of baby boomers. Among the biggest losers in all this are institutional investors. If you think AFSCME, CalPers, etc are about country clubs, you're pretty mistaken. Lots of people who are going to get laid off now are not exactly super rich either. And that's just the beginning. As the credit markets seize up be prepared to see a lot more layoffs and economic damage. Say goodnight to national health care in the next 4-8 years or anything else that the government can do that is going to be expensive. Yes it would be possible to deal a blow to the Republican party by completely WMD'ing the economy. But not desirable.
I'm not glad at all... it's all sucky. And I'm not talking about the Republican Party. I'm talking about the people currently running it and the "philosophy" they use to govern. The Bush Republicans need to be thoroughly discredited to the point they never get close to power again. On the "utter shambles" part, please point out one noted economist who can explain why this will work? If you can, I'll point out 50 who aren't sure at all. If you're committing this kind of money, you better be dead sure what you're doing will work. Most folks seem to think it "might" help some, but there are still major shocks to come. I'm at the point now where I think it'd be best to suffer the pain now and reset the system instead of trying to drag it out.
Don't mind rimrocker. He's got a couple screws loose up there. He still doesn't get what the bailout does and how the financial markets work.
And they deserve just as much blame. Embarrassing. If I lived in a district and my rep voted against this, I'd vote against them...regardless of party affiliation...pure partisan politics or a complete lack of understanding of implications. I'm 90% in cash and have been for over a year, so I am not that concerned as to what happens to stock prices. But when you start seeing more banks fail, fortune 500 companies to small businesses experience paralysis, then maybe people will understand the implications.
You're right...there is no guarantee it will work. But its not like we're putting $700 B on black and hoping the roulette wheel hits black. And we KNOW that not doing anything will be horrendous. Timing is critical and you can't just hope that if things get bad, we'll revisit...so much of the financial markets is based on faith..no one will fund new banks or be willing to lend at less than ridiculous rates if we don't put out this fire soon.
The problem is most of the people in your district would want their rep to vote against the bill, a lot of these guys are up for re-election.
So you're willing to sacrifice people's jobs, people's retirements, and basically the global economy so that Bush and company are punished? This is horrible for *everyone*. Unless something changes soon, it also completely screws the next administration and any progress they could make on major, necessary issues.
Smart man. My father in law is a financial advisor and he recommended I do this about a year ago. I should have listened.
I have to agree with you, and disagree with rimrocker. Most Americans these days do not have "defined benefit" retirement programs. One way or another, their retirement is invested in stocks. Thank god, my wife and I are not deeply in the market and have state retirement programs that are classic defined benefits until we croak. We are the rare exception. rimrocker is taking a very, very narrow and partisan view of this. Having said that, the Democrats in the House shouldn't vote for this bill unless they get a substantial House Republican vote in favor of it. Doesn't have to be a "100 votes," as I've seen mentioned, but at least close to a majority of Republicans. Why? Because if Democrats pass this thing without substantial GOP votes in the House, it will be immediately used to run against them in this election. You will see millions and millions spent on TV and radio advertising trumpeting Democratic responsibility for this bill. That is unacceptable. This problem was largely created by the Bush Administration and the former GOP Congress. There is NO WAY the Democratic Party should "take the fall" for the mistakes of the Republican Party. If that has to happen, you change the bill a bit and try again.
via dailykos (Cspan's site is crashing) Partisan breakdown: 140 Dems for, 95 against, and 65 Rs for, 133 against. One non-voter, and that was Jerry Weller (R-IL).
Yup. Instutional investors like Pension Funds, Endowments, Local Municipalities, and Insurance Companies are getting destroyed since they can only invest in AAA securities. Hence the heavy investment in the senior traunch of MBS.
Except by November if we don't pass a bill, so much will have hit the fan, they won't get re elected. We'd have been better off if we didn't put up a vote today...no idea why we put it to a vote if we didn't have it in the bank (pun intended)...now there is way too much uncertainty in the air..you'll start seeing economic paralysis grow exponentially between now and november
Yeah but will those defined benefits be safe? I don't mean to alarm you but in all likelihood, your state pension/benefits manager is not having a very good month asset-management wise.
BTW will we ever stop looking at the DOW and focus more on the S&P 500? There are so many flaws with using the DOW (i.e, only 30 companies)
Sam, you and Major have been for this manifestly bad proposal since Paulie rolled it out.. a proposal that trusted enormous sums to the current untrustworthy administration for a plan that nobody is sure will work. It boggles my mind that both of you took this position. You've stood with the Street during this whole debate. The Country Club was not a literal remark, but a symbol of where you're at on this... and that you two seem to trust the people who made bad decision after bad decision to put us in this place to have the answers to get us out. Here's a clue... everybody's going to hurt like hell. My inheritance that I plowed into my kids' college plan is tanking as bad as your stuff is. My retirement funds are going backward. My house in New Mexico has been on the market for 2 years with no end in sight. This bill would not have prevented any of it... it might have not even delayed it. The sooner we face up to the fact that we're headed for a prolonged depression, the better. The sooner we blow up the current system and start over, the better. Things are not going back to the way they were. The markets will not be "normal" again anytime soon. Quit defending the status quo and start trying to figure out how to get us where we want to be.
