I agree except that it was mainly republicans who defeated this bill - you do realize that. But it's a bi-partisan failure. I think it's time to stop being a partisan...aren't you freaking scared at all? I mean, this is nuts. Credit markets are tightening and if there are a few more bank failures the whole thing can collaspse. People need to really understand that this isn't about bailing out banks as much as it is ensuring availibility of credit. Credit is the oxygen for capitalism - our whole economy is what it is today because of banking - i.e. credit. If banks can not loan and take loans, than business activity drops - consumer, industrial, commercial, you name it. They must pass this bill. The risk is too great.
This feels like ten years ago, partisan bickering right on cue. And I bet, just like then, we end up losing a Speaker just to get this thing done (even though it might not be announced until after November).
After having thought about it awhile... and digested that trainwreck of a conference call between Treasury and Wall Street, I fully withdraw my tepid approval of the bill. It sucks. It sucks hard. How anyone can read the notes of that call and not think that is beyond me. We are better off with nothing. If you didn't read it (it's up there somewhere in this thread), here's what we now know... 1. Paulie can request all the money at once. It takes passage in both houses and presidential sig to stop the last bit. Do you really think Repubs wouldn't filibuster that? Do you really think Bush wouldn't veto that? It's $700,000,000,000 we're talking about and not a penny less... all to be spent between now and January 20. Bastards. 2. We know that they are prepared to let more banks fail because they don't plan on doing anything for a few weeks. Bastards. 3. We also know they are not at all honest with how they will value the junk and almost certainly will overpay at a price that will make any kind of profit impossible. Bastards. 4. We know their emphasis will be on the "system" and not returns for taxpayers. Bastards. 5. We know there's really nothing behind the exec compensation package and certainly nothing that would cause any reconsideration of bad behavior... in fact, it probably encourages more of it. Bastards. 6. We know they are sending messages to Wall Street instead of explaining this train wreck to America. Bastards. 7. We know the oversight got watered down to essentially Paulie, Bernie, and Chrissie, the very people pushing this and who will be undertaking the actions that need oversight. Bastards. In short, it is one steaming pile of suck. Scrap it all, give Paulie $100,000,000,000 to play around with and "restore the confidence" of those bastards on Wall Street by giving money to those undeserving bastards and wait until we get a new Congress and President to try anything of significance... I want to be damn sure we explore unintended consequences... we've learned from this administration that just wishing for good things from policy created by theses bastards is a fool's game. Did I mention these guys are bastards? Good night America. It was nice knowing you.
really? and what about the "fiscal republicans" like culberson from houston who voted no? i heard that chump on fast money (a cnbc show) today and he sounded like the biggest hack out there. http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=872233203 here is him getting owned and passing the buck. if you don't want to watch the whole thing then just start at the 5 min mark. also bigtexxx....why couldn't the house repubs be responsible and ignore pelosi and get the bill passed?
Repubs were trying to thread the needle with just enough votes to get the Dems to pass it so they could campaign against it... but they screwed it up and now they look like losers. (And by the way, when Bush has 4 months left out of two terms, it's a little late to credibly stand up against him... at least you shouldn't brag about it. Bastards.) This is the one time Republican incompetence might have been good for the country.
sorry if i have done a bad job at explaining things on the fly but it isn't just about confidence. it is also simply about creating liquidity in an illiquid market that needs liquidity. people in the market need to feel like they can confidently trade with one another so the markets will start trading again. btw...do you respect warren buffett's opinion on this bailout? and it's not just this admin...this has been decades coming. if you think this is a big deal then just wait until the sword drops on america's neck when we can't fund our govt anymore due to years of fiscal irresponsibility. as standard and poors said our govt's AAA credit rating is "not a god given right"...but that downgrade won't happen soon so let's just not worry about it or plan a way to avoid it!
Regardless of how you feel about this bill, I'm pretty ****ing scared at the moment. It's clear something has to be done, and hopefully instead of days of press conferences blaming the other side, everyone will sit down and figure out a solution. Absolutely wrong time for politics right now, this stuff is serious.
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its unbelievable they are going with this excuse, nacy's an idiot for giving them any ammo but still, it this really your excuse for letting this thing get of control.
And why did Pelosi ALLOW 16 Democrats to vote NO on it. Why did 12 Democrats on the committee vote NO?
From my viewpoint: I believe most of the 'nay' votes were akin to media members not voting in tainted or lesser HOF candidates (McGwire) their first year of eligibility. By voting 'no' yesterday, they can campaign later and say they voted against the measure (should it remain unpopular). They know they'll have a second opportunity. [yes, it is horrible that they helped the Dow plummet for the sake of personal political gain - the nay votes should help identify career politicians] Once it became clear that many Republicans switched from an expected 'yes' to a 'no', it became easy for several Democrats to also switch their votes under the cover that the Republicans were to "blame" for the defeat. Pelosi failed measurably. Especially on the heels of a weekend where it became clear the GOPs were not fully on board, the proper speech was "It is time for us to put partisan politics aside, a time to put personal aims aside, and do what we know is right for our country. Today we can not be Republicans or Democrats, we must only be public servants." Instead, she seized an opportunity to castigate and blame the GOP, rightly or wrongly. Idiotic. [again, yes, Republicans still needed to rise above that - but the point remains that instigating partisan rancor when it is paramount for all sides to work together was petty and foolish of the Majority Leader.] All sides failed in terms of educating and winning over the people. If this measure is the right thing to do, but the constituents are bitterly opposed to it, than the House and Senate members needed to make the case for it, through the media or otherwise. Most of the voters against the measure probably stopped at "$700B bailout." I'd wager that large numbers of average Americans (and not too many of those here in D&D are that) are ignorant to the full repercussions of a credit freeze and how this bill might address the crisis. I'm not saying it *will* work - I'm saying that there is a misconception that this bill is simply a trillion-dollar handout to Enron-types. McCain's camp took a fair shot with the "out of touch" and "uninvolved" jabs at Obama when he was holding a mission accomplished speech as the measure failed. However, any actual blame would be silly, especially since we're talking about Senators and a House vote. In any case, neither can claim they got the job done. I believe the measure will pass with plenty of cushion on Thursday. The Representatives that wanted to get their token "hey I fought it and voted against it" got it and now will try to head off the actual crisis. Republicans got to shine a spotlight on Pelosi's unfortunate speech and will probably wrangle out a mea culpa from the majority for it. Hopefully the bill ends up with a few more amendments that benefit the taxpayer. Evan
including 5 committee chairmen. apparently, there was no pressure from Pelosi to vote for the bill: [rquoter]And What About Those 95 Democrats? September 30, 2008 7:32 AM Yes, House Republicans didn't deliver many votes and 66% of them voted against the bill. But considering that only a dozen votes needed to switch in order to provide a different outcome, and 95 Democrats in the House voted against it, critics are now wondering why couldn't House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., have assured a different outcome considering how important she said its passage was? Rep. Hank Johnson, D-Ga., told me yesterday that he felt no pressure at all to vote for the bill. "For me it was an easy decision," Johnson said. "The bill has nothing in there that mandates workouts of these foreclosures that are pending. We have up to 5 million that are meant to occur over the next year." "It was a Republican-caused bill and the Republicans, it looks like they failed to muster enough support to get this thing passed," Johnson told me. What about the Dow going down 778 points? "The stock market goes up, the stock market goes down, that's not something that I am particularly concerned with," he said. "I believe that the market will get over this initial shock that the corporate bailout plan did not go through, and that it will recover." - jpt[/rquoter] i know it's a cliche, but it's true in this case: Worst.Speaker.Ever
