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[The Athletic] Why James Harden and the Rockets are on the verge of a divorce

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Reeko, Nov 17, 2020.

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JoeBarelyCares Contributing Member

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What a great read, thanks for sharing. The Rockets should hold tough for a while and try to convince Harden and Westbrook to buy in with the new coach and GM. Spend into the luxury tax, and bring in a center.

#21 JoeBarelyCares, Nov 17, 2020

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sammy Contributing Member

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riko said: ↑

6 first late first rounders , Dimwiddie and Levart for a top 5 player! Highway robbery for the nets
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If it was 6 picks, we would have a pick 2/4/6/8/10 years. How the hell would you know where those picks would land? Stop it

#22 sammy, Nov 18, 2020

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icewill36 Member

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topfive said: ↑

Don't overlook this gem:

Morey had to dance year after year to skirt the luxury tax, with at least some of his moves that were sold as trying to revolutionize the game — such as jettisoning Clint Capela to Atlanta at the trade deadline last season, forcing the Rockets into playing “microball” the rest of the way, with the 6-6 P.J. Tucker playing center — really as much about getting under the tax line.

Even worse, Morey had to play the good employee and parrot the company line, rather than say, "Hey, this buffoon is leaving me no choice!"
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I KNEW this was the case at the time. Clutchfans kept saying no we are trying to maximize russ! Tillman is scrooge mcduck level cheap. Winning is not his top priority.

#23 icewill36, Nov 18, 2020

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Sooty Contributing Member

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Reeko said: ↑

Harden, his family, and his foundation have done a great deal of work within Houston during his eight years there and have a vested interest in the city. Harden has a good relationship with Houston’s Mayor Sylvester Turner, other local professional teams, and has worked extensively with youth and the underprivileged. He’s a part of the ownership group that controls the Houston Dynamo and Houston Dash. Harden is also currently building his own restaurant/bar in Houston, according to a source familiar with developments. There is a lot of mutual love that exists between him and the city.
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Don't just hate on him for leaving, remember this bit - he is all about the city of Houston!

We're just in some trouble with the ownership at the moment. He wants to go explore and win a ring, go do it man!

#24 Sooty, Nov 18, 2020

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MorningZippo Member

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abaker28 said: ↑

Ahh rumours and theories.
I read somewhere earlier that it may also be due to Tilmans political backing of Trump.
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I doubt it. The amount of money Harden loses with a democratic president is SUBSTANTIAL. Most of the owners are Republican too, so it’s not like he can go somewhere else and avoid the problem.

Better to be quiet for PR purposes of course, but when it comes down to it, that’s not likely to be a problem.

#25 MorningZippo, Nov 18, 2020

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DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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The Roster and mess is Harden's fault, he whined about CP3 because he was being criticized and couldn't take it, then forced him out for a player that Morey knew DID NOT FIT!

So, here we are a broken roster because of Harden and he wants to leave.....the Rox need to hold out.......don't take anything just because Harden wants to go, he signed the deal he is obligated.

Let it simmer.

DD

#26 DaDakota, Nov 18, 2020

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TexAg713 Member

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DaDakota said: ↑

The Roster and mess is Harden's fault, he whined about CP3 because he was being criticized and couldn't take it, then forced him out for a player that Morey knew DID NOT FIT!

So, here we are a broken roster because of Harden and he wants to leave.....the Rox need to hold out.......don't take anything just because Harden wants to go, he signed the deal he is obligated.

Let it simmer.

DD
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Agreed all this bs originated with Harden being immature and not being able to take criticism, then demanding CP3 be traded away for WB in what will later be seen as the death knell for this team. And now he wants to complain that he isn't consulted on "big decisions". Also agree the Rockets should slow play this thing the way Denver did when they eventually traded Melo to the Knicks for a king's ransom.

#27 TexAg713, Nov 18, 2020

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Deuce Context & Nuance

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Reeko said: ↑

for emphasis

The Rockets are in the midst of a culture shift, from the Morey and D’Antoni era to the one piloted by the team’s new GM, Rafael Stone, and its new coach, Stephen Silas — under the ownership of Tilman Fertitta, who league sources maintain is hellbent on reducing payroll and getting the Rockets out of the luxury tax business for the foreseeable future.

it’s also being reported by Kevin O’Conner that Tilman won’t trade Harden to Philly due to pettiness with Morey
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under the ownership of Tilman Fertitta, who league sources maintain is hellbent on reducing payroll and getting the Rockets out of the luxury tax business for the foreseeable future

Blame Morey? Blame Harden? Save it. Fck this guy #Tilman. Don't look at the symptoms, look at the ROOT CAUSE. Everything (the problems) dovetails off Tilman's decisions from the top.

#28 Deuce, Nov 18, 2020

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Deuce said: ↑

under the ownership of Tilman Fertitta, who league sources maintain is hellbent on reducing payroll and getting the Rockets out of the luxury tax business for the foreseeable future

Blame Morey? Blame Harden? Save it. Fck this guy #Tilman. Don't look at the symptoms, look at the ROOT CAUSE. Everything (the problems) dovetails off Tilman's decisions from the top.
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True but Harden was making bad emotional decisions before Tilman even walked through that door. The Dwight drama....Cp3 drama, Harden collapsing in key playoff moments. Tilman didn't help but to say James didn't have a part is being willfully ignorant. We can appreciate everything he has done and still call him on his bullshit.

#29 Ramo$e, Nov 18, 2020
Reeko Member

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Deuce said: ↑

under the ownership of Tilman Fertitta, who league sources maintain is hellbent on reducing payroll and getting the Rockets out of the luxury tax business for the foreseeable future

Blame Morey? Blame Harden? Save it. Fck this guy #Tilman. Don't look at the symptoms, look at the ROOT CAUSE. Everything (the problems) dovetails off Tilman's decisions from the top.
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it’s insane that he’s still hellbent on reducing payroll...meanwhile the narrative is that they want to try and convince Harden to stay and get him to believe that he can still win a championship here

in the Silas press conference, they’re telling us how money isn’t an issue

we have an owner who says he wants to win, but actively destroys things with his meddling and cheapness, and then gets mad when the team gets bounced in the playoffs

How do u want to win while being hellbent on reducing payroll and avoiding the LT yet again?!?

#30 Reeko, Nov 18, 2020

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htwnbandit Member

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In all this I forgot that Ty Lawson was one of the guys that came thru here and went lmao

#31 htwnbandit, Nov 18, 2020

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Deuce Context & Nuance

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Ramo$e said: ↑

True but Harden was making bad emotional decisions before Tilman even walked through that door. The Dwight drama....Cp3 drama, Harden collapsing in key playoff moments. Tilman didn't help but to say James didn't have a part is being willfully ignorant. We can appreciate everything he has done and still call him on his bullshit.
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I am not absolving Harden for some blame. Or Morey, or MDA or others. No one is perfect. But EVEN WITH all of that, all Tilman has to do is spend to be a title contender and not get in the way of basketball decisions. THAT'S IT! Just do that. But he hasn't. And where the team is right now, is DIRECTLY related to this Tilman problem. So my IRE is focused on the CORE ISSUE. Not the symptoms.

#32 Deuce, Nov 18, 2020

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Ramo$e Member

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Deuce said: ↑

I am not absolving Harden for some blame. Or Morey, or MDA or others. No one is perfect. But EVEN WITH all of that, all Tilman has to do is spend to be a title contender and not get in the way of basketball decisions. THAT'S IT! Just do that. But he hasn't. And where the team is right now, is DIRECTLY related to this Tilman problem. So my IRE is focused on the CORE ISSUE. Not the symptoms.
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lol

#33 Ramo$e, Nov 18, 2020

Ramo$e Member

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htwnbandit said: ↑

In all this I forgot that Ty Lawson was one of the guys that came thru here and went lmao
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Yes never forget!

#34 Ramo$e, Nov 18, 2020
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J.R. said: ↑

LOL

But Harden’s gripe with Houston might go deeper than on-court activities. Sources indicate he’s felt that some team decisions have been made without substantial input from him — whether they be signings, trades, or even hirings.
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He's had more input than Yao could ever dream of.....what he talking about......

You had probably the most let's put it mildly power driven triplet in Harden, Tilman and Morey but Morey being the most rational of those 3.

#35 daywalker02, Nov 18, 2020

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Deuce Context & Nuance

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Ramo$e said: ↑

lol
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lol

#36 Deuce, Nov 18, 2020
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Dont expect much movement from Houston today in terms of Westbrook or Harden. Those deals have been tumultuous to say the least the past few days. Teams just aren't meeting the asking prices. There could be a minor move for a late 1st or 2nd rounder but that's all that should be expected today.

Just what I have heard. Take it or leave it, just wanted to share.

Have a great day.

#37 Whenitsover, Nov 18, 2020

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Reeko said: ↑

To understand why the rapidly deteriorating situation between the Houston Rockets and James Harden is confusing and simple at the same time, you must go back to its origins.

A bit of revisionist history tells us that the fruitful, eight-year relationship between Harden and the Rockets was born out of circumstance.

Back in 2012, the Oklahoma City Thunder — fresh off an NBA Finals appearance and armed with a bevy of young and bustling talent — was faced with a decision that would later go down in franchise history as one of the greatest ‘what ifs.’ Russell Westbrook had signed a five-year, $80 million max extension, although he was actually eligible for a supermax contract. His fellow superstar Kevin Durant was already on the books, having famously taken himself out of potential free agency to sign a five-year extension of his own in 2010 – which meant two of OKC’s quartet of talented young guns had their futures committed to the franchise’s.

Only two situations were yet to be finalized; Serge Ibaka’s and Harden’s. In 2012, both players were soon set to hit restricted free agency.

General Manager Sam Presti had a decision to make. He negotiated with Harden’s camp on a new deal, but was hamstrung by ownership’s insistence at the time that the Thunder not be a luxury tax payer. (Ironically, OKC would become just that in subsequent seasons, without Harden on its roster, as the Thunder continued building around Durant and Westbrook.) When Presti could only go so far and no further with Harden, it forced Harden’s hand to find a better situation elsewhere — which he did, with the help of Daryl Morey and the Rockets.

Bringing in a wide-eyed, 22-year old talent to Texas wasn’t an immediate signal of championship-or-bust but the groundwork was being patiently laid. Morey coveted a star, and churned his team’s roster year after year, adding and subtracting, looking for hidden value through the Rockets’ G-League affiliate and player development, until he had enough credible pieces to offer Oklahoma City.

Once Harden got to Houston, he got the ball. And his game was allowed to grow and develop, while Houston’s front office continued placing different pieces around him, in hopes of building towards something great. And, over eight seasons, the Rockets got close – very close – to breaking through in the west, particularly under Mike D’Antoni’s freewheeling, nightly 3-point barrages.

But, Houston ultimately fell short, as did every contender in the west that went up against the healthy, fully-loaded Warriors juggernaut. That Golden State team wasn’t in place this past season, leaving another run as a possibility in pursuit of the two L.A.-based franchises. But the Rockets’ season was a mess behind the scenes, a year that might go down as one of the most puzzling in sports history. When you take into consideration Houston’s position amongst other contenders and never-defeated Father Time, it gets even weirder.

What the hell happened during the 2019-20 season, resulting in the departures of the most successful general manager and head coach the team has had in years — and, now, the wishes of their franchise player and his friend and running mate, Westbrook, both wanting to be traded?

Our Shams Charania reported Monday that Harden wants to ply his trade elsewhere, with Brooklyn and Philadelphia being his top two choices. ESPN first reported as well that Harden turned down a two-year extension offer from the Rockets that would have kept him in Houston until 2025 — and would have paid Harden an incredible $103 million total in 2023 and 2024, on top of the $170 million deal he has with Houston from now until ’23. If Harden had agreed to the most recent extension offer, he would have grossed a cool $331 million total from the Rockets from 2017 through 2025.

There are obvious ties to both Brooklyn and Philadelphia. Harden loved the years he spent with Durant and the Thunder early on in his career, constantly being called the glue that held the team together, according to a source close to Harden. During the Rockets’ 2018 trip to the Bahamas prior to training camp, Harden would watch hours of old Thunder games in his room. The presence of D’Antoni on the Nets’ staff as Steve Nash’s top assistant, along with the abilities of Kyrie Irving to take some of the ballhandling and scoring load off of Harden, would be an added bonus.

Philadelphia’s interest in Harden has grown in recent weeks, sources said. Morey’s ascension to the top decision-maker spot on the basketball side as president of basketball operations is an obvious link, given the history Harden and he share, but there’s also the lure of the Eastern Conference. Rapper Meek Mill has a longstanding relationship with Harden and has been trying to convince him to come to Philadelphia, according to a source. Billionaire Michael Rubin, a close friend of Meek’s and co-owner of the 76ers, is also very fond of Harden.

But with Morey and new coach Doc Rivers just getting up to speed on the franchise, the 76ers are still contemplating the pros and cons of keeping their superstar duo of Joel Embiid and Ben Simmons together. One or the other, along with multiple other pieces, would have to be dealt to Houston in any potential deal for Harden. Still, we all know that Morey is not one to nibble at the margins; he tends to take big swings.

The Rockets don’t want to trade Harden. He’s been the best thing to happen to the franchise in a long, long time. But that’s no longer the same as being adamant about not trading him at all.

The team is well aware of how much Harden now wants to leave. It will take a substantial package and an impact player. But there is a combo out there that will get them to yes. While this has been the stance Houston has taken for years, sources tell The Athletic, past inquiries about the former MVP in seasons past have been discarded, with Houston simply not entertaining the notion of moving the 2018 league MVP.

But getting anything approaching fair value for Harden will not be easy.

“When you’re trading one of the top five players in the world with three years left on his contract, anything you get is underwhelming, and you know you are losing the deal,” a team executive whose team is not involved in the trade talks said Monday.
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wow what a useless article. Rehashing old info. The piece mentions nothing about why he wants to leave. Why? The issue according to my assessment is money, talent, and direction. No coach no GM and an owner refusing to pay luxury taxes slashing payroll. On top of that zero assets thanks to an overzealous gambling GM in Morey. The two stars know this team cannot win without couple upgrades and the future looks bleak so they are jumping ship. Pretty simple. Morey Dantoni and Fertita all had their hands in this situation. It is what it is.

#38 Stephen_A, Nov 18, 2020

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He is likely going to join the Nets soon or late. His time in Houston is over since this team will become worse each year, there is not a point for him to stay here in both sides.

#39 LabMouse, Nov 18, 2020

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I simply do not trade Harden this year
unless something just blows my doors off

Rocket River

#40 Rocket River, Nov 18, 2020

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