Doubt he has much value.. every other team has seen what we have. Besides, I'm not ready to give up on him. He bruised his ankle, not his surgically repaired foot.
The question was what more could he have done etc? Regarding Yao, he has a big contract, which would allow you to absorb another large contract. His value as a player is pretty much nil right now, and with the team losing games this fast, even if he comes back healthy they won't make the playoffs. So, what do you do? Maybe trade him now, or wait until the offseason? DD
Are you trolling the boards, or just DD? Offtopic: Certainly, the ankle injury in Yao comes with bad timing, but late reports on the status of his foot sound very optimistic and are being overlooked. Definitely there are more reasons for being optimistic with Yao nowadays than 2-3 months ago, despite current injury. The whole situation (not just him) deserves a last chance. He's our best player potentially, by far, I see no reason to deny that last chance, and I see no reason to be (with him) more pessimistic now than 2 months ago.
Yao does not have to be traded -- be is still good for 20 minutes per game in a quality backup center role. Since he is the biggest cash bull the Rockets have ever had, it would be foolish from an economic standpoint as well. Whether his salary is $8M or as much as $17M per year, he returns that and much more in revenue from China alone. Morey should not be fired unless he drafts/acquires another PF or "glue" veteran rather than a stud center or PG. Heck, I'd settle for a stud SF (no offense, Bud). However, I'm sure Morey still worships at the MoneyBall shrine so I have no hope of getting anything other than solid, mediocre role players who will propel us to yet another solid, mediocre season.
The issue will be that the team will be out of the playoffs by then, and if he is healthy for 2 months, what does that prove? Why take the chance and sign him again when it could hinder the franchise going forward. I think what has happened is that a lot of people have given up on Yao, they want him gone, so that the team can go whatever direction it needs to go. Clearly they are better with a healthy Yao, but can't you see how people would have lost faith that, the "health" part will ever happen, and they would rather move on, than face another 3 to 5 years of his potentially being injured and hindering the team moving on? That is the issue. DD
Well I don't make any decisions based on an injury that is not related to any of his past surgeries -- so yes, we should wait until the off-season to watch him play a 'full' year of NBA games and to see how he responds. Even if he's only 80% of the player he used to be, I'd still be in favor at bringing him back. I think the days of Yao getting maximum contracts are gone, so hopefully we can lock him up for 3-4 years on a reasonable deal. If you're going to do a major shakeup with anyone at the deadline, it probably should be Martin, Brooks, or Scola. They have the most trade value and all are going to be getting paid big money for the next several years (including AB who you'd have to match the offer for this summer). If you're not willing to commit big money to Brooks, the deadline will be the time to move him.
Not bad, personally, I think you have to know what you are going to do with Yao before any move is made. Because a team with him and without him are two totally different types of teams. Scola and Brooks can play with either, not sure about Martin.......but yeah, I would be in favor of moving anyone etc. The problem with moving Brooks is he is a $9 million dollar player on a $2 million dollar contract so you are not going to get value for him by trading him this year. Martin is performing about what he should and Luis is killing his contract, those two guys will get your more in trade, I should think. Just a bizzare situation for the team to be in Honestly. DD
I think the rockets have to move one of Brooks & Martin. They cannot play together. The defense is killing us. I prefer to move Martin. As you said, Brooks is on his rookie contract, we cannot get equal value for him. More importantly, Brooks is a proved playoff player, but Martin is not. According to Martin's 4th quarter performance, I don't think he will be a playoff player.
Well hopefully we can both agree that the Houston Warriors (no Yao) are never going to work. Adelman changed his system once Yao went down and seems to have stubbornly fell in love with the uptempo. Perhaps all old men (Nellie) prefer to move to uptempo teams in their later years. But the teams that win the rings are the Celtics, Lakers, insert-type-of-team-with-elite-defense. You just can't have that with the uptempo push-push-push system that RA installed last year. If we rebuild after this year, I'd like for them to move all three of Martin, Luis, and Brooks. We can pair Brooks with Shane or Jeffries if there's a player making more than him. It will be more difficult to move him next year when he becomes a BYC player (I think?) and is considered to be paid what he's worth. The problem with re-building and keeping Martin/Scola/AB is I fear they will be good enough to keep us out of the top 5 picks -- a must if you're rebuilding through the draft. Morey has proven to be good at finding role players throughout the draft (AB, Landry, Lee, Budinger), but no superstars. He hasn't gotten a chance to pick in the top five.. but when he's trumping Patrick Patterson as the sixth best talent off the board it makes me wonder if I want him making that decision.
I disagree that Brooks and Martin can not play together, I think they can play very well together, but you need to decide if they are going to be the focus of the offense, you need to support them with players that can help them on defense. We need long athletic shot blocking players at the forward and Center position, at least 1 and preferably 2...if you play Brooks and Martin.... Tony Parker and Manu suck at D at least one on one, but they have Duncan at the rim. The Rockets are sort of a mish mash of player and skillsets....some low post in Scola, some perimeter in AB and KMart, some all D no offense in KL, and SB,....their strengths do not compensate for others weaknesses. DD
That's not true. Tony and Manu are average at D, and acceptable. But, they are much better than Martin & Brooks. Martin & Brooks are the worst starting back-court duo according to their defense. DD, you need to go to the Toyota center to see their play, and you will get the idea how bad their defense are.
Look, I know they are not good at D, I am saying you can win with them being bad at D, if you support them at other positions with good defensive players. Our team is constructed where our players weaknesses are not complimented by other players strengths... DD
So, you basically say that we should build around them since you say we should surround players to fit them. I do not think that is a good idea. They are not franchise players.
Do you believe that you can win a championship with a core of Scola, AB and Martin? I would hope not. The best players are the ones that can make their presence felt on both sides of the ball, not having other players hide their deficiencies on one side of it. AB/LS/KM will always be a big defensive liability -- we need to bring in someone who can make an impact on both sides. That's why Yao was so valuable to us and held in such high esteem -- he affected the game on both sides of the court. Now, we need to find a perimeter player who can do the same.
Yao will be back by mid December, not mid February. Right now it is too early to talk about trades and rebuildings. If we are on the same situation by January, then it's time to talk about that; now it's time to win as many games as possible. We're just 5-6 games under 50%, not 15 or 20. I wouldn't care too much about the people's feelings. Just some more months, if his foot is OK, Yao will be OK, every player has sporadic injuries. As I said, just bad timing.
I am not sure what you mean by core? I think they can be part of a championship team, sure, but you would need to retool the rest of the roster, let me take a stab at it with players to better explain how it might work. Say we have those 3 players starting for us, whom would we need to make them a championship team. AB - Strenghts, speed, shot making, decent play maker, - weaknesses, defense Kmart - strengths, shot making, movement off the ball, drawing fouls - weaknesses - defense Scola - Strengths, good low post moves, good rebounder, good role player or go to guy, weaknesses, defense. Ok, seems to be a pattern here...lol...so.....we would need to surround them with some guys to help them on D. You would need a shotblocker at the rim who can also rebound really well on both ends....someone like Brook Lopez. Then at the SF position, you would also need a good defensive guy who can get to the rim and create shots for others as well as himself, someone like: Danny Granger. If you had this lineup as starters: Brooks Kmart Scola Granger Lopez I think you have a decent chance at being a contending team. To me, it is all about how the pieces fit and whether they compliment each other well. Right now, we are struggling with how they fit together, mostly because of injuries but also because we are deficient in some areas. So, to answer your question, yes, I think they could be part of a core that wins a championship, but it would depend upon the players you put around them. Now I went for guys that I think we might have a shot at....clearly you would get Dwight Howard and Lebron James.....but we have no hope of that. DD
why did you leave out the second part of my post?? I made it very clear what I found frustrating...and it wasn't merely that you had a different point of view. Here's my post in its entirety, again: I'm not attempting to make this personal. I'm suggesting it's very difficult to have a discussion when the ball keeps being moved. If your point was, "it's always been about next season" well that doesn't jive real well with "even if Yao only plays 24 mpg I think we're a championship contender." One point concedes we're not contenders this year ("wait till next year!")...the other says definitively we are contenders right now. I'm not trying to pick on you, personally, because I think you've arrived, ultimately, at the same spot I'm at now...."the plan hasn't worked, so let's have more of the plan!!" seems to be the plan. And I get that you don't think that's real wise, either. But I just find it frustrating to have the conversation going on for months...and then for you later to come in and say we really didn't have it, because this season has always been a write off for next season.
Different conversations, I do think we could be a contender if things worked out, and we gelled, but never lost sight of the truth in Yao's situation and contract. It is not black and white Max, there are infinite shades of gray in looking at this team, at least to me. And I am not denying we had any conversation where are you getting that from? Do you recall me saying that all we can do is HOPE that Yao is healthy, and go on that hope? That should help clear it up for you.....I was HOPING that Yao would stay healthy as would the rest of the team, and if the stars aligned we might be there contending. Clearly, that hope has pretty much vanished. DD
By core I meant they were three of the best players on the team. The guys you build around -- NOT role players. I emphasize NOT role players because they are no longer being paid as such -- they are being paid the big bucks to lead teams (including AB's summer raise). The team you just fantasized about involved bringing in two guys who are better all-around players than all three of AB/KM/LS. To me, that means that no, we can't win with the three guys as our core. That means we should break them up to create a core that we can win with. You don't get Lamar Odom and Pau Gasol before you get Kobe Bryant. You don't get Durant after you've had Green and Westbrook for a few years. You take your lumps, draft the Dwight Howard, then find guys to build a team around him. We don't have any such player capable of leading us to a championship -- not even the core of our best three can.
I guess I understood you to be saying something different. I know you said you wanted him to stay healthy...but I thought ultimately you were saying they'd be legit championship contenders with him merely at 24 mpg the whole season.
