I really like your idea, GATER. As long as it is made clear to EVERYONE that if SA were moved into the second string, and Mobley starts games, it is temporary and not a judgment on who has better skills (SA). Then I think our offense would improve greatly. The only drawback to that is that we don't have SA in the game to defend the opponents starting SG. But maybe this could just be a temporary solution to get SA's offensive game working again. I do feel that he would get his proper amount of touches if it is Moochie running the offense. ------------------ She hates testicles, thus limiting the men she can admire to Democratic candidates for president. -- John Greenway, "The American Tradition", on feminist Elizabeth Gould Davis [This message has been edited by RunninRaven (edited November 20, 2000).]
I don't buy the "reward defense" stuff with isolations, even in small amounts. Only your best offensive players get ISOs, other ISOs are wasted possessions, unless there was a mismatch or Iverson was guarding you. Doling out the ISOs is a terrible offense reserved for teams with a bunch of complainers, like the "title-contending" Bucks. And the "makes it tougher" on his opponents doesn't wash either. If you want to tire your opponent, make him run on transition or through constant motion. Low post ISOs from guards is not going to tire out Kobe or Eddie Jones. I keep coming back to the problem is Francis and Mobley are not running the transition well. I'm fine with giving a quick strike low post to Anderson in transition, because I think he will excel at playing in 3 on 3 or 4 on 4 situations, as BobFinn* says. But once the defense fully sets, Anderson is a role player. And I think he knows that. I don't think the article is correct. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited November 20, 2000).]
HP is right on one thing - we don't run plays for Shandon. He cuts around the edges where offense comes in, and plays D the rest of the time. He's pretty marginal when it comes to set plays. Which is why he's so important, particularly when our other two stars are having less-than-stellar nights. Last season, Shandon tended to step up (scoring) when the other guards were slumping. We usually won, too. But he doesn't run sets very well, he just plays hard. You can't tell him that "If Steve goes to X, and Cat goes to Y, and Dream is standing at Z... then he should do XX..." or anything like that. Not to say that he won't/can't do it - he'll understand it, for sure - but being a defender at heart, it won't work, because he's going to end up running after something else and getting out of position, harassing someone else, thereby fu*king up the whole set... That's how he gets steals. And how he forces the other guy to take bad shots. And that's why we like his D. Also, guys, please try and remember that he's still in mourning... ------------------
I don't buy the "reward defense" stuff with isolations, even in small amounts. Only your best offensive players get ISOs, other ISOs are wasted possessions, unless there was a mismatch or Iverson was guarding you. Doling out the ISOs is a terrible offense reserved for teams with a bunch of complainers, like the "title-contending" Bucks. I suppose you think that the Blazers are a bunch of complainers, too? OK I'd probably agree with you there. But they run ISOs all the time for guys like Bonzi Wells. Why shouldn't S.A. get the same treatment? Heck, we give Moochie Norris ISOs, for cristsake. Anyway, I'm in favor of fewer ISOs, and more set plays. So, my heart won't be broken if Shandon doesn't get post-ups, as long as we figure out a way to get him the ball. Transition is good, but its hard to score 12 to 14 ppg strictly off of fast break baskets. And the "makes it tougher" on his opponents doesn't wash either. If you want to tire your opponent, make him run on transition or through constant motion. Low post ISOs from guards is not going to tire out Kobe or Eddie Jones. But Shandon really isn't that type of guard, and we don't run a lot of motion plays anyway (unfortunately). I'd love to see sets involving the wing players coming off of multiple picks, with Francis hitting them just in time for an open 15 footer. But I don't know that we've got the personnel. I keep coming back to the problem is Francis and Mobley are not running the transition well. I'm fine with giving a quick strike low post to Anderson in transition, because I think he will excel at playing in 3 on 3 or 4 on 4 situations, as BobFinn* says. But once the defense fully sets, Anderson is a role player. And I think he knows that. I don't think the article is correct. I don't know the politics or emotions involved in the situation. All I know is what I see on the court, and what I read in the boxscores. Zero shots is terrible for a starting shooting guard. Worse is that he's averaging like 2 or 3 shots per game over a pretty long stretch, coinciding with (but not completely because of) a decrease in minutes. Shandon's a role player, but he should be able to find a few shots even in the half court. Mario Elie was a role player too, and still managed to get 11 or 12 ppg for several seasons here. Transition offense is a major part of the missing equation, but its not the only part. ------------------
oh btw, let me restate something. IMO, Shandon is a role player in offense, only. I consider him a valuable leader overall. just wanted to make sure I keep stressing that since I'm apparently taking an unpopular position regarding his offensive skills. I love Shandon and suspect our rotation defensive improvement is largely due to Rudy having Shandon in practice showing how it is done. I am sure he is invaluable in practice as a leader. Does Bonzi really get ISOs?
Yep. Have only watched 1 Portland game this year, but I watched several last season, including most of their playoff games. He scores alot in the flow of the offense, but Portland also tends to post him up a few times a game vs. smaller 2s. He's got good size and is actually pretty successful at it. ------------------
I've seen Bonzi get ISOs. I'll take Bonzi ISOs over Shandon ISOs any day. You can't say Moochie runs ISOs. He runs very few. I totaled up all the ISO stats I've posted. The Rockets have run 99 ISOs in those 5 games. Moochie only had 5 of them. For comparison, Francis had 35 and Cat had 37. Francis and Cat run 7 times more ISOs than Moochie. Some ISO success rate totals: Rockets: 38/99 = 38.4% Francis: 15/35 = 42.9% Cat: 13/37 = 35.1% Moochie: 3/5 = 60% [This message has been edited by jamcracker (edited November 20, 2000).]
hello guys i have been in europe out of pocket so to speak..forgive me for my lack of insight/details yet are we sure that he really had an argument after the game where he was waived off? was he indeed waived off? I just wonder if maybe this guy from the article on the front of this website may be trying to make a peter vecsey like name for himself... just wondering... ------------------ i am a friend of sarah connors i was told she was here can i see her please
While I am not ruling out that Shandon may be upset for not being included in the offense, I also wouldn't rule out that this guy is trying to make a name for himself. ------------------ Only in America....do people order double cheeseburgers, large fries, and a diet coke.
sam,,,that is not really what I'm saying. Transition is not all about fast breaks layups and 3s, just ask Utah. Hell, ask Kansas; ask Cincinnati. Hell, ask my high school coach to explain how to dismantle the Chicago Public League Schools with transition. We have not had transition in Houston for well over a decade. And we are not doing it now, either, mainly because we have trouble getting the outlet. If we ever get structured transition that Rudy has talked about, you will see Anderson get free in the low post to make his moves and deliver passes. When Francis starts running better half court sets, you will see Anderson more pronounced on the weak side. But, after a recent game of 2 15' wide-open airballs and to miserable passes off of strong side drives, no wonder Rudy features him mainly on the weak side. I consider Shandon not only a superior defensive player to Rhodes, but a superior offensive player as well. You are somewhat making a "this" or "that" comparison, saying if Shandon doesn't do ISOs then he can only get lay-ups and back doors like Rhodes. I don't look at offenses that way at all.
So lemme get this right… It seems to me that many posters want more plays called for shandon anderson and less for cuttino mobley. Hmmm….interesting. So we want more plays called for a man who has never proven to be an offensive threat, save for within the rockets system as a garbage man. This IS the same man who wasn’t a threat in the all-so-great-share-the-wealth jerry sloan system, right? This IS the same man who has chunked up his share of rimwhiffers in the past few games, right? This IS the man who cannot dribble any better than Bryce Drew, who many of us flambéed for dribbling like a 4th grade reject? This IS the same man who cannot beat his man one-on-one, right? This IS the same man who has a less-than-respectable jump shot right? This IS the man that – going into the season – was regarded as no greater than the 5th option on the team right? Hmmm….interesting strategy we’ve got going here. Look, if the argument is that Shandon should be getting more shots in transition, I’d agree. There’s one problem, though. We don’t have a transition game! Our guards and small forwards are our best rebounders (save for the Dream). Maybe if our big guys ran the floor better (CATO, I MISS YOU!!!) we’d have a few more breaks, or if MoTay had less tatoos and more rebounds, Shandon (Steve and Cat, too) would have more opportunities. But it ain’t that type of party! Shandon has never, should not, and probably never will be option #1 or 2 or maybe even 3 on this team. Cuttino and Steve present far too many matchup problems for other teams to even consider lessening their touches to appease Shandon. Dream will get a few touches, but in the crunch time even Dream must acquiesce to the Leaders of this team. Let me stress that again – …MUST ACQUIESCE TO THE LEADERS OF THIS TEAM As such, they must lead on and off the court, and I expect them to address Shandon personally. However, on the court, the other 3 guys must find a way to make themselves open in a way in which Cuttino and/or Steve feel the most comfortable passing to them. That’s the nature of any team. You acquiesce to the leader, not the other way around. When that happens, the “leaders” are able to make their teammates better. If what you’re asking is for Cuttino and Steve to start passing to say…MoTay…who is capable of creating his own shot, capable of demanding a double team, capable of passing to the open man, and (NOTICE) capable of SINGULARY, OFFENSIVELY damaging and/or disrupting the opposition, I’d agree wholeheartedly. But to ask for them to give up half court possessions (shots) or consciously look to isolate a player whose primary strength is defense and primary weakness is offense is…well…as one wise boxer said…LUDICROUSTH…. ************************************************************************************ “I want to eat his children…All praises to Allah.” …sorry I had to do it. P.S. HeyP: i got lost on that other thread. kinda like shandon on offense. ------------------ Mobley and Francis ...are not the two best players on the team. - Rockeem 11/2/2000
I agree totally with what DreamShake said about Shandon Anderson. The only problem I see and have seen it last season is where to play Shandon. Guys you all know its just a matter of time before Cuttino will start and thats not an assumption it will happen sooner than later. Do I think Cuttino is better than Shandon, thats a Hell No!!! I don't understand the offensive scheme this year, granted I haven't seen more than 4 games this season. It looks awkward having MO-T isolate one-on-one instead of posting down low and not posting Shandon down low also. The post players have to almost beg to get the ball down low and I mean everyone, even Dream. If Houston Rockets lose Shandon, which I think they will for more reasons than this upcoming incident(last season). The future will look bleak. We'll be able to score but not stop anyone unless Cato blocks a shot or two. So the Houston Rockets better look in the draft for defensive stoppers at 2, 3 and the 4. Shandon I'm on your side give him the damn ball Mr. Point Guard!!! Especially in the post(and Mo-T). I'm out. ------------------
heyP, what I was trying to say about Rhodes is that a team struggles when it has one-diminsional player as starters. A guy like Rhodes (better example: Augmon), who play good D but little offense, is fine for a spot player but not for a starter. I want well-rounded players there. I'd love to see the transition game that you emphasize, but it seems difficult to implement with our rebounding problems. When Francis and Cat are our #2 and #4 rebounders (Walt #3), that means that our two best players to ballhandle on the break are in the frontcourt pulling down defensive boards, instead of near the half-court line to receive the outlet pass. It is critical for our power forward to rebound the ball! Until he does so, I don't see enough transition opportunities this year to keep our wing players happy. Thanks for trying to educate me on the particular transition offense that you are talking about. Maybe a flash diagram would help. ------------------ (edit) verse good call on the rebounding issue. obviously, we agree (didn't see your post until after I wrote mine) [This message has been edited by SamCassell (edited November 20, 2000).]
heyP: In response to what you said in the other thread: I concur. Shandon is a leader on one half of the court. As such, he is subject to the same responsibilities as Cuttino and Steve are offensively. He must carry the majority of the load, and express to his teammates what he needs for them to do for the IMPROVEMENT OF THE TEAM. The difference would be that offensively, Steve and Cuttino are “talented” enough to score despite what their teammates are or are not doing. However, defensively, no matter how talented Shandon is, if his man passes the ball, their isn’t much he can do outside of playing team defense and hoping Steve, Cat, MoTay et al play defense. That’s another subject though. The gist of what I’m saying is this: Offensively, Shandon is a role player. Possibly the 5th option on the floor. I don’t see too many times (save for BLATANT mismatches) where I’d consider isolating him or running a play for him. It just doesn’t make sense. Apparently, we see eye to eye on that one. Defensively, Shandon is a stud. No question on that one. When the Rockets have that mix going of Steve and Cat being the impetus on offense, Shandon being the garbage man, and Shandon playing D on the oppositions best player, we are one tough team to beat. Toss in a Walt or Dream good game, and we’re a top 5 team in the West. ------------------ Mobley and Francis ...are not the two best players on the team. - Rockeem 11/2/2000
For what ever reason that Shandon is not involve much on the plays that Rudy calls, He better give him a roll on the offensive end, because we all know for the fact that Shandon can penetrate to the hole or draw a foul to the inside.To me, Shandon is a key player inorder for Rockets to suceed!!!!! ------------------ Rudy T. will find and fulfill Rockets destiny.
while i agree that "Shandon is a key player inorder for Rockets to suceed!!!", I must disagree about "we all know for the fact that Shandon can penetrate to the hole or draw a foul to the inside". jamcracker and i have been charting the ISO plays for the rockets this year (though i haven't been able to post mine for the past few games). i don't believe (though i don't have any stats in front of me) that shandon has had more than say, 5, successful iso plays all season. now, if you're suggesting that he penetrates well within the offense, i'd agree. but that comes as a result of him cutting at times which are comfortable for steve/cat. those aren't designated plays called by rudy to go to shandon. heyP, correct me if i'm wrong on that one. i do hope, though, that shandon's production increases. as a general rule, that means that the motion offense is being effective, or that he is extremely active as a garbage man. both bode well for our success. ------------------ Mobley and Francis ...are not the two best players on the team. - Rockeem 11/2/2000
Aside from Hakeem (when he's going), who's the best defender on the team? And they still give up more points than the majority of teams. Do you really want to lose that one piece, just because he isn't currently working offensively? Has it occurred to you that for every point he hasn't scored, he's probably kept the other guys from scoring 3 or 4? It might be hard to win when those 3-4 pts start adding up. This team really has only 2 defensive players, and Shandon's one of them. I think we'll be in big trouble if he goes. Goddam, some of you people are just too impatient to wait out a slump. I got news for you, that's the only way to get past it. Eventually it ends. None of you has even acknowledged that his mother's passing might still be a major factor. Players have lives, too. Some people take years to get past that, but he still gets out on the floor and tries. Maybe he oughtta get a little less PT until he gets things smoothed out, but some of you guys are ready to ship him off to Bora-Bora... Your lack of loyalty to a guy who took a paycut to play here is frightening. Again, this pisses me off. Allz I can say is, you'd better have a damm good replacement in mind, if you're seriously thinking about ditching him. And not some fuzzy draft prospect. I don't think we have the money for that. ------------------ [This message has been edited by treeman (edited November 20, 2000).]
TIBuron, I agree that the offense is not operating as well as it must...patience... My main point in this thread, and there is no guessing what verse thinks (hehe), is that Rudy needs to involve Shandon in more creative ways, not *ugh* more ISOs. And I can safely say; if Rudy starts adding low-posting ISOs for our guards, I'll be throwing elbows getting on the Rudy-bashing bandwagon. That is a gimmick offense with many flaws. At least with our 4-out-1 structure, we have a way to get Cato scoring for us, and Shaq out of the middle. You can throw that out the window if we low post our guards. If we low post our guards, defenses can then collapse and cause major problems that has Seattle at 4-7 right now. i'm out to...great thread Dreamshake!!
ab-so-lute-ly. i don't want steve turning into gary payton on offense. ------------------ Mobley and Francis ...are not the two best players on the team. - Rockeem 11/2/2000
verse - I've kept ISO stats for all the games except the road Laker game and the first game. I have NEVER written down Shandon's name. He's never run a play that I'd call an ISO.
