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The African Population Explosion we are too scared to talk about

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Senator, Nov 28, 2018.

  1. biff17

    biff17 Member

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  2. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    How do think this stops?
     
  3. Senator

    Senator Member

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    The thing is - they are.

    How hard is it to read 1 5 page UNICEF report?

    Or watch a 10 minute talk by melinda gates, the leading philantrophist in the world?

    I've repeated myself on every page, so little impatient at people still refusing to acknowledge the misogyny , manipulation coupled with fanatics like ipaman and the whole ... well , its Africa, and doesnt affect me.

    Everything is global.
     
  4. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    so you think by reading that report and watching a video everything will be solved.

    ok dude.
     
  5. Senator

    Senator Member

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    Birth Control.

    not forced, giving women the option, providing a mandatory education, stocking supplies as part of a health agenda.

    Currently less than 10% have access to it, less have the option.

    This was addressed in Europe, Us , China, India etc and it's people, economy, poverty etc benefited from it. But it hasn't been a priority in Africa because of the colonial overtones. Rashmon demonstrated this as many in bureaucracy are so insecure they cannot be pragmatic in this situation.
     
  6. ipaman

    ipaman Member

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    Didn't know cf.net was full of Thanos' wanting to snap people out of a future existence. Black people too, very telling.
     
  7. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    You keep thinking Africa is one state. It’s impossible to have a conversation with you until you recognize that it isn’t one state with one type of people.
     
    jcf, FranchiseBlade and amaru like this.
  8. Senator

    Senator Member

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    @amaru

    So now that you know the facts - this population explosion that cannot be sustained is a result of misogyny, what are your thoughts about it?
     
  9. Senator

    Senator Member

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    You keep trying to act profound, but are totally missing the mark. The growth rate in every part of Africa is unsustainable, whether it's places like Niger where women are having 8 babies or Nigeria where it's 5. This problem stems from a lack of education and birth control due to misogynistic mentalities.

    This isn't some radical individual viewpoint, it's science.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/human-population-reaches-seven-billion/

    So why does it make you uncomfortable when women have a say in how many babies they should have?
     
  10. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    @Senator , I think any argument about "population explosion" needs (at a very minimum) to acquaint itself with Derek Parfit's argument for the "repugnant conclusion." A good summary can be found at:

    https://1000wordphilosophy.com/2014/08/04/the-repugnant-conclusion/
     
  11. Senator

    Senator Member

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    I don't - it's a swing and miss.

    Feel free to read the scientific American article and acquaint yourself with science, not philosophy taken from the same page as flat earthers.

    Limited resources, in order to manipulate them to achieve higher yields, you put chemicals and GMO's and unhealthy substances into what was once natural while destroying forests, natural habitats, animals and ecosystems. Americans and Europeans, when given the choice of birth control, reduced the number of children women had. Women in Africa want to do the same, but don't have this choice. Corporations will be limited in their abilities to manipulate if every human was allowed to make this choice willingly, instead of forced into being a baby making factory with no resources whatsoever.
     
  12. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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  13. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    since you brought it up, here's what I would recommend

     
  14. CCorn

    CCorn Member

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    The next world war will be here soon enough to correct overpopulation
     
  15. Senator

    Senator Member

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    He's nothing special , you're just throwing out "accredited" names to deflect from the fact you support misogyny and manipulation of the poor. His "philosophy" has absolutely nothing to do with giving women a choice to say how many babies they have. The population explosion would correct itself if women could do so.
     
  16. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    you're right. I stand corrected.
     
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  17. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    I'm not trying to be profound. I'm being realistic. You know that there is a desert in Africa that is as big as the continental US, right? My point is that it's a big ****ing place and you don't seem to want to recognize that. Do you refer to South America or Asia as a single entity? If you want to make a point about a specific country then do so.

    Here's the top 7 countries in population with their growth rates and stories about their path to controlling population growth. You can see each country is different or maybe you won't bother to read or see that, but it would be nice if you tried.

    Nigeria 181,563,000 2.43%

    Government plans two kids per woman in proposed birth control policy
    https://guardian.ng/news/government-plans-two-kids-per-woman-in-proposed-birth-control-policy/

    Nigerian women face their fears and start using contraception
    https://www.ft.com/content/02fb4c8e-75ff-11e7-a3e8-60495fe6ca71

    Ethiopia 103,764,000 2.85%

    Ethiopia strives to control its population growth
    https://www.worldbulletin.net/africa/ethiopia-strives-to-control-its-population-growth-h152652.html

    Family planning liberating for women in rural Ethiopia
    https://www.unfpa.org/news/family-planning-liberating-women-rural-ethiopia

    Egypt 89,125,000 2.45%

    Egypt pushes population control: 'Two is Enough'
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...shes-population-control-two-enough/743591002/

    Egypt promotes birth control to fight rapid population growth
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...o-fight-rapid-population-growth-idUSKCN1BA153

    Democratic Republic of the Congo 77,267,000 2.11%

    It's hard to find any significant mentions of family planning or population control here, so there would seem to be an issue.

    South Africa 54,957,000 0.99%

    Population growth is not a problem.

    Tanzania 51,046,000 2.75%

    Amnesty International condemns Tanzania's 'attack' on family planning
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/25/africa/tanzania-suspends-family-planning-advert-intl/index.html

    'No need for birth control': Tanzanian president's views cause outrage
    https://www.theguardian.com/global-...trol-tanzanian-presidents-views-cause-outrage

    Kenya 45,533,000 1.69%
    Kenya on the verge of meeting family planning target
    https://www.theeastafrican.co.ke/sc...ing-target-/3073694-4331796-mnu9pp/index.html

    In Kenya, Family Planning is an Economic Safeguard
    https://www.voanews.com/a/in-kenya-family-planning-is-an-economic-safeguard/2579394.html
     
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  18. Senator

    Senator Member

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    You're not bringing any new information to the table. There's always been conventional knowledge of what's right and then there's been what a culture or society makes up to circumvent that knowledge. Here we have a cultural issue of masculine worth being in the number of kids you have and females not having a say in it. I'm not interested in proposed measures but the actual implementation of it. Why aren't women being given a choice when they've implicitly said they want? Less than 10% of women in Nigeria use birth control, compared to 70%+ in developed countries.

    Information is power. In general, when women have the chance to be educated and have jobs, fertility rates go down.

    We've been talking about climate change for decades and carbon emissions are still going up thanks to the whole world adopting endless consumer culture.

    It's important to strike off warnings as to the "real problem" instead of going around it so you can feel like something is being done about it.
     
  19. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    So you completely got ignore that it is recognized as a major issue. You completely ignore that countries are trying to combat overpopulation. You ignore that countries have started to show success with family planning initiatives. Excellent discussion!

    Not that it matters but it is closer to 20% of Nigerian women that use birth control of some sort. They are continue to push to increase that rate.

    https://www.jhsph.edu/news/news-rel...-modern-contraceptive-use-study-suggests.html

    You ignore the ethnic and religious differences among contraceptive use in Nigeria too.

    https://www.researchgate.net/public..._Interaction_amid_potential_causative_factors

    Lastly you seem to ignore African countries with higher contraceptive use rates. Why don’t you acknowledge any nuance to this discussion? Why do you only refer to “Africa” as a single group? It seems pretty lazy and intellectually lacking to do that.
     
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  20. Senator

    Senator Member

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    5% in Zaria, the number is much lower than relative progressive cities like Abuja. Push needs to be stronger and quite frankly, part of the mainstream conversation in all WHO meetings in addition to malaria, ebola etc. Best way to combat diseases and poverty is prevention. I'm not happy with the current rate and bottom line - you can't keep growing at an unsustainable rate then predictably becoming a victim.

    From page 1:
    In many ways it's similar to the catholic priest abuse. People don't want to say things when religion is involved and the problem spirals way out of control as a result.

    There is obviously nuance, but there is also a common narrative throughout all of the African countries. By highlighting the lack of urgency, you have a better chance of waking up those like Amaru who don't really want to "impose" and demonize me for suggesting it.
     

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