See this is the disconnect to me. The goal of the Rockets FO is to use the structural leverage they have to get players on contracts below their free market value. It is a huge part of what Stone is paid to do. It seems like people on here are rooting for our players to get paid their free market value? Restricted free agents are cost controlled. They’re not on the free market. The Rockets have built up a ton of leverage. Our extension candidates will not get what they are worth on the free market via an early extension … and that’s good! Every incremental dollar in guaranteed money to Sengun or Jalen decreases our long term championship equity. I swear, if we announced bargain extensions for these guys later this summer some people on here would be mad their guy didn’t get a max lol.
If you think Sengun will get anything less than the max, you live in a fantasy world. Even Jalen will probably get something close to the max from some team, hopefully not the Rockets. I'd be happy if we could sign Jalen for something like 25-30 per year. That would at least keep him tradeable (I think).
Very doubtful, there's currently a better version of Jalen Green on the market that a team is trying desperately to get rid of to the point where they are throwing in a first round pick and want essentially nothing back.....and no one at all is interested. I'm just not sure a team would want to throw that kind of money at a poor man's version of what they could get PLUS a first round pick.....and still have no interest in whatsoever.
Interesting comparison. LaVine is much older though, so some might still have hope that Jalen turns it around.
While that's true, LaVine is just 29, still in his prime and no one wants anything at all to do with him despite the fact that he's better than Jalen at everything. He'll only be 31 when the contract is up and he's making about what FVV is making....and that's seen as making him such a toxic asset that they can't give him away for free. BTW, that's less than the rookie max extension.
Not falling for the Jalen Green bait would be a start. Trade him now before he has another bad season and people find out what he really is.
The statement that you quoted doesn't mention Sengun or any particular player for that fact. It's just saying that there a big ramifications now for giving max deals to players who don't deserver them. Do you disagree? You should ask me my preference regarding giving Sengun a max deal before you make assumptions.
What's your preference regarding giving Sengun a max deal? I don't disagree, in general. There are only two players on the Rockets where this question is coming up now. They are not the same. Also, the ramifications are less dramatic for rookie max extensions than they are for old guys who get a supermax. My preference, after some thinking, is: Give Sengun the max, now. Make a consolidation trade involving Jalen, Brooks and filler for future assets or a more efficient SG/SF.
I would give Sengun the max. It's like Morey said, the best bargain is superstars because they are worth so much more than the max. Sengun isn't a superstar and may never be but he's a very good player and he deserves the max. To be a true contender, we need to have a superstar. We can wait and hope that one of our current guys bursts out or we can make a trade. Trade's are hard to predict because you don't know who will become available.Even if its inly a 2nd level star, it will be expensive as tbere will be lots of competition. Bridges isn't a superstar but he was just traded for Bogdonovich and 5 first rounders ( picks and swaps) and I read today that the Knick may be adding an additional player to the deal. Trading for a star will be expensive. Trading Green and Brooks for a non star doesn't really move the needle.If we trade Green, we don't really need another sg in return as we are going to already be struggling to get enough minutes for Whitmore and Amen. I know you'll hate this one, but if the cost of getting a true superstar is Sengun, then I do it.
True. Maybe our best bet is to let Green start the season and hope and pray he will play really well. Then we can either give him a big contract (if we believe it will last) or at least he will have increased his trade value. But it's hard to argue with @Bobbythegreat's LaVine comparison. They have similar output, LaVine is better at basically everything, but there is absolutely no market for LaVine.
I'd expect the Rockets to wait till after the upcoming season to make an offer to Green. If he continues to be inconsistent then you either deal him at the deadline, let him walk or offer him what you believe is fair value. The interesting one is going to be if he turns in a good consisistent year - good but not all nba good.. That is certainly what we hope for but it would also mean that if you give him a max deal, it's mostly based on a 1 year sample size. If that happened, I would guess he would get the max just because they wouldn't want to lose him for nothing. I get the Levine comparision but I'm not sure how similar that is to Green. Lavine is a bit older, makes more money than Green is eligible for ($43m), hasn't been able to stay healthy recently and isn't generally regarded as a team first guy. Btw iI had added an additional statement to my last post. After I made the change, I saw that you'd already liked it. Make sure you re-read the post with the additional statement. I wanted to make sure that you saw it so that it didn't look like I was trying to sneak it in after you'd read it.
Sengun is going to get the max just like Maxey did. Stone’s job is to maximize the Rockets’ interests and flexibility, the Rockets lose nothing by waiting until next offseason to offer Sengun the max. By waiting they will have more flexibility to improve the team next year, they will have one more year of sample to make sure Sengun is worth it, and God forbid they get to wait one year in case there’s a career ending injury. There is zero advantage for Rockets to offer the max now, Sengun won’t be going anywhere as long he is worth it next year. As much as I am a fan of Sengun, as a fan of the team it is obviously what they need to do for themselves. I’m sure Sengun would like the max today, but I’m unfortunately that’s the business of basketball. As long as he keeps improving and doesn’t get hurt he will not make a dollar less than what he deserves.
Deserved. Det and Tor also don’t have to balance 7 other prospects on their teams looking to get paid eventually or are they at a point where they can look to use cap space to contend in a year. We are in a more similar situation as Phi and Maxey. With that said if we max Sengun, great. If we don’t, he will still get paid next year and not miss out on a single penny. Sengun literally can’t go to any other team next year as long as the Rockets want to keep him.
This second apron thing is incredibly interesting to me because it's definitely going to make dynasties hard. The last few teams to win were very deep and complete teams, and almost all of them have lost a chunk of that depth after. Lakers, Bucks, and Nuggets specifically have been hit hard by losing role players despite keeping their stars, and now we see a Boston team that's very deep win, it'll be interesting if they can keep that team together. I think it has made it that if you have a window to win, you should just hit the gas pedal potentially, because that can really fall apart quickly. I wouldn't say we are there yet, but we might be in a year or two, a situation where we have a ton of valuable role players on good contracts that we are at risk of losing that we'll be in a place to capitalize on I think I do like it overall if not just to prevent another Warriors signing KD situation in the future, but also I think it could really benefit young teams like us if cards are played right
What’s funny is I think it’s the complete opposite. “Hitting the gas pedal” is a recipe to destroy a team for a long time with the second apron. I think the trick under the new apron system will be (1) identifying two to three core pieces, (2) having a solid influx of draft picks, and (3) trading non-core assets for future draft picks. If anything, the apron system encourages parity and long-term thinking.
It's interesting, what you are saying is definitely the way to stay competitive for a long while, but I'd worry there'd always be one or two teams every season just going all in and worrying about the tax later and it'd be hard to beat those teams. But those teams are only going to have a 1-2 year window probably What I'm really saying is that it's going to be hard to keep a very deep team, so you should make that extra move to get over the hump while you have a deep team. I don't mean like add Bradley Beal and cap yourself out for the next few years just to have one more "star", but more like stuff like Dallas did in acquiring Gafford and PJ Washington, or like I think OKC could have made a run if they had a more aggressive trade deadline and brought in a 6th man and/or back-up center last season (though they still have the time and are using it now). Basically like don't assume your window will be open forever the way this current league is. Though I think biggest thing is to just find a way to make sure you maintain depth
There is the possibility of another team signing them to a 2-year + player option max offer sheet if you let them get to RFA without an extension. That kind of structure for a max superstar really puts you over a barrel; you'd be unable to trade them during the first year of the deal due to matching an offer sheet, and in the second year of the deal, you'd be essentially dealing someone on an expiring contract who would have a ton of leverage in selecting their future team and would minimize the trade return. If a player is going to do something like this, then they probably have one foot out the door already, and you don't really want to build around them. But the Rockets ostensibly got burned by this with Chandler Parsons, and the Heat and Raptors got burned by LeBron and Chris Bosh (while the Heat succeeded in the gambit with Wade). Meanwhile, the Nuggets signed Carmelo to the full 5-year max, and managed to extract the pick that would become Jamal Murray, Wilson Chandler, and Danilo Gallinari as part of a trade, because he had two years extra of contractual control. Not saying that this should be the primary driver of an undeserved contract extension, but unlike in FA where I strongly believe in "shorter-is-better" for contract length, I want to have my build-around superstars be locked in on the team for as long as possible, which will always be a bargain as the cap continues to grow.
