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The 1st Debate

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by yaoluv, Sep 26, 2008.

  1. Faos

    Faos Member

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    http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/09/fact-check-kiss.html

    Fact Check: Kissinger Defends McCain's Iran Stance


    September 26, 2008 11:54 PM

    ABC News' Kirit Radia Reports: Former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger came to the defense of longtime friend Sen. John McCain following Friday's presidential debate saying he "would not recommend the next President of the United States engage in talks with Iran at the Presidential level."

    "Senator McCain is right. I would not recommend the next President of the United States engage in talks with Iran at the Presidential level. My views on this issue are entirely compatible with the views of my friend Senator John McCain. We do not agree on everything, but we do agree that any negotiations with Iran must be geared to reality," Kissinger said in statement issued by the McCain campaign.

    During the debate, Obama pointed to Kissinger to defend his position because the former secretary of state supports direct talks with high-level Iranians without preconditions. Kissinger does not, however, support the U.S. president personally engaging in those talks, a point which McCain sought to drive home during the debate.

    While it appears Kissinger and Senator Barack Obama disagree on what level those talks should occur, they do agree talks should begin, in Kissinger's words, “at a very high level” and without preconditions.

    During the debate, McCain said that Kissinger would not endorse Obama's position that he would meet on a presidential level with leaders of enemy countries. "I guarantee you he would not say that," McCain said of Kissinger.

    Obama took issue with McCain's characterization of the former top diplomat's position, but just last week Kissinger said that, while he broadly agrees on the need to negotiate with Iran, he "preferred doing it at the secretary of state level."

    When asked if high level talks with Iran should begin right out of the box, Kissinger replied "Initially, yes."

    According to Obama's official website he supports "direct presidential diplomacy with Iran without preconditions."

    On preconditions the two appear to agree. Last week Kissinger also said that "I do not believe that we can make conditions for the opening of negotiations."
     
  2. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Kissinger said he would have support talks at the Secretary level....that is what he was talking about.

    But McSame kept jumping the shark and talking about a heads of state meeting.

    Hopefully the rest of America was smart enough to catch this bait and switch tactic.

    DD
     
  3. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    FACT CHECK: Obama said like 20 times that he didn't support direct Presidential talks either.
     
  4. Faos

    Faos Member

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    I didn't write the article.
     
  5. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Kissinger DID say it....

    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/tJL3rN_N_7o&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/tJL3rN_N_7o&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

    DD
     
  6. Lil Pun

    Lil Pun Member

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    You just posted it. For what?

    So Kissinger did say we should meet with Iran, correct? Because Obama never said we should meet with them on the presidential level either last night.
     
  7. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Kissinger DOES support talks with Iran.

    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/MhhVDE3dDSo&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/MhhVDE3dDSo&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

    DD
     
  8. Lil Pun

    Lil Pun Member

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    Yes. Faos just decided to post that article for reasons unknown at the moment.
     
  9. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  10. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    Yep. Obama got the massive fail on that one. I wonder if Barack has even ever met Dr Kissinger. Probably not. Oh well, I guess it was on Obama's talking points, so it's coming out of his mouth during the debate
     
  11. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    I know Texx....it must be tough for you these days...but hey....you will have a chance to get some credibilty back in 4 years.

    DD
     
  12. JunkyardDwg

    JunkyardDwg Member

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    You know something I wish Obama would have done...although it might not have been wise at it could have been seen as somewhat of a petty attack...but I wish Obama would have called McCain out when he went after him on abusing earmarks...something along the lines of while Illinois spent only 25 dollars per citizen in pet projects last year, Alaska remains the largest per-capita consumer of federal spending (spending 295 per citizen this year)...and that if he (McCain) wants to talk about abusing the system, maybe he should look to his own party and his own running mate first.

    It just bugged me that McCain's only solution to the economy seemed to be ending the abuse on earmarks.
     
  13. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost Member
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    Worry not, McCain has a pen!.. it's kind of old
     
  14. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    The fact that you're having to twist my words and weakly attempt to insult me tells me all I need to know. Thanks
     
  15. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Got it, did you see this?

    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/MhhVDE3dDSo&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/MhhVDE3dDSo&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


    DD
     
  16. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    Sorry, I'll take Dr Kissinger's word over Katie Courics. You have to think deeper, DD. You can do it. Dig beneath the surface.
     
  17. ChrisBosh

    ChrisBosh Member

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    amazing how much attention you get.... you bring absolutely no substance. DD actually went and found evidence, yet you refute it like a little child.
     
  18. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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    You shouldn't. So far, Katie Couric hasn't betrayed the country.
     
  19. FranchiseBlade

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    McCain didn't make any major blunders. So in that regard he did well. But he didn't land any of the strong punches that Obama did.

    When Obama brought up that McCain said the U.S. could just muddle their way through our conflict in Afghanistan, that was a strong blow.

    When Obama brought McCain's ignorant boasts about the war in Iraq being easy, about the U.S. being greeted as liberators, and about there not being a history of conflict between Sunni and Shi'ia, that was a major blow against McCain.

    When Obama showed McCain's lack of knowledge about Spain and its leader that was a powerful blow.

    When McCain tried to lay it on thick with his story about the bracelet and act as if he had a monopoly on Veteran support, and then Obama busted out with "I have a bracelet too." It sucked the wind right out of McCain's sails.

    So while McCain didn't have any major gaffes, he didn't also didn't have anything comparable to Obama's best punches.

    Obama could have done more, but for some reason didn't bring up mcCain's unwillingness to support the new and improved GI Bill for veterans. So Obama didn't score as high as he could have.

    As far as passing the challenges both of them faced for themselves it was a draw. McCain didn't say anything ridiculous about the economy, and Obama clearly showed he a firm grasp of foreign policy. In many cases it was better than McCain's.

    As far as style... McCain did look tough, but grumpy, and stubborn as well, and like poor sport. Obama looked thoughtful, gracious, calm, cool, and in charge.

    It wasn't a knock out, but Obama seemed to be the winner.
     
  20. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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    You saw those as strong punches. I saw them as playing "gotcha" games, especially the part about the Spanish leader.
     

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