I'm nitpicking? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! You made the first assertion based on a photo "of a millisecond." Not I. I showed you to be factually incorrect. I make no claim about whether ANYONE lied. I merely retain the right to ask that you admit the truth once I've proven it time and time again. You go do that video watching... Just make sure and record the number of times that Obama interrupts McCain while he is talking, while ignoring the moderator as he says "One at a time" in the background. The lack of respect is from the younger toward the elder. It's also a basic fundamental of America that Obama is lost on. Sorry you cannot look a picture, repeatedly, dead in the eye and not see that it exists as permanent record disproving your flippant, smug, smearing comments. That is a major flaw. I stand for making the truth on this one moment known, so far as this recent convo has gone. You have not even cared to acknowledge the PICTURES themselves. You even tried to declare that 2 shots, no all 3, were somehow the same. You need to do three things. 1. Admit your assertion was flawed at best (and that is me conceding your misdirected perceptions). 2. Study the photos for differences 3. Take back your direct attacks on me as being "a tool" or the like. I have been told time and again that burden of proof for your claims, was my burden. Here I've proven your claim wrong.. and now you disregard it. That is fundamentally wrong. What say you? How do dispute photographs, dare I include video, proof? What can you say for yourself? Do you live in a different dimension? I am really interested in how will talk your way again, right past the evidence I presented to dispute your point. Your assertion. my replies
post a HUGE COLOR PHOTOGRAPH of mccain looking obama in the eyes DURING THE ELECTION!!!!!!! that'll show everyone!!
I think "yo" put it best. You are completely off your rocker tonight, and acting like a child (or tool, you pick). I posted a photo that encapsulates my feeling and "assertion" (and apparently the majority of the COUNTRY'S assertion) that McCain was not as cordial or Presidential in tonight's debate. The record shows he was not, and unfortunately for you, posting the same pictures over and over again won't change that. You take your pictures, I'll take my polling numbers. Goodnight.
I actually believe that the debate was pretty much a draw. McCain was much more animated than what I thought he would be. Obama was clear, concise, and poised. Both men did a good job.
I think any one with an ounce of objectivity can say that McCain was avoiding eye contact with Obama thru out the debate. What's debatable, perhaps, is the reason why he would be doing that. But not the fact itself. Posting the same pics over and over again, of the same instance AFTER the debate and to justify that as an argument is silly. If you are trying to get rid of the the TJ and texx label which some accuse you of wearing, your last couple of posts certainly did not help the matter.
Yeah it was basically a toss up for me. Both had their strong moments and both had their weak moments as well. If there was a hybrid between the two, Id vote for that candidate. I think Obama is just way to caught up with the whole change thing that he talks a bigger game than he really can play while McCain can be too stubborn at times. I like Obama's ideas. I also think we need someone who is a bit hardheaded to run the country which McCain has. It's just that both candidates strengths to me ideally should be less than what they come off as. I wish there was a middle ground.
The point is, in the overall scheme of things, this is fundamentally (that means at the basest of levels for the new libs out there) the problem with many of the issues that divide us. A failure to see truth as truth only damages any discourse or dialogue that we could ever hope to have. This is tantamount to looking in the mirror, seeing egg on your face, but refusing to wipe it away claiming you didn't see it. It's telling, because Obama has not conceded that he was wrong on the surge either. And that's the most notable, of many, times he has failed to concede points. Not even a simple "I'll give you this much... you are right, McCain did look Obama in the eye" is very telling that there is no desire to even be decent. Not even common decency is wanted in the McCain Hater's Union. Not even a, "well, I guess I was wrong on that issue." Not one. I agree again that, as McCain implied, it must be very hard to reach accross the aisle when you are that far on the left. I have real life liberal friends, have been a long time on the Harris County Libertarian Party mailing list because of an affinity to many of their ideals, voted for Democrats in the middle on state and local issues, and came one single issue away from voting for Clinton in '92. I am able to debate real issues, and have done so time and time again on this bbs. I do not have to stand by and take the vitriolic hatred, personal attacks and smears on my viewpoint, but I choose to. Why? Because not many other "conservatives" make a stand in here that's why. I have conceded many points to Dems over the years... but not so much to "liberal" ones... simply because they are much farther from the middle than most Democrat talking points. My rant over the photographs is one of principle. If we just let a false assertion slide by as the truth, when it is simply untrue, we are helping neither side. We help neither side reducing the discussion and debate to a simple lack of being truthful. We help neither the Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, Green Party, or others if we accept snide comments based on unfactual remarks as the truth. The truth is the principle I am trying to stand for here. Before you attack some other issue.. address the issue of the claim that McCain did "not" look Obama in the eye. State for the record the whole story, and then we can debate other issues. Start with the details, before claiming it as the big picture. The truth is this, no matter who our next president is, we will all still live in this country as Americans. We will all still need to get along. Hyping up false assertions and calling them truth does not encourage trust and cooperation. I don't know why that is such a hard thing to do. Why is the truth so hard to admit? The claims made in this thread about McCain not looking Obama in the eye are simply not the truth. When it mattered the most, at the end, McCain simply DID look Obama squarely in the eye... and he did it long enough to have many photos taken of it from multiple vantage points. There are other photos of it. If it is not the truth, why make the claim? To deceptively smear the man, that's why. But that helps neither side. And Obama's followers supposedly got on his bandwagon largely in part due to his lack of "old politics" -yet here we are watching the followers take the lead on personal attacks of not only the opposing candidate, but also the supporters of the opposing candidate. How does that help?
Once again, in long post fashion, you fail to grasp the point - there's no claim that McCain made ZERO eye contact with Obama - just that he was avoiding it. And if you are denying that, then it is you who is concealing the truth, and everything you just wrote should be directed right back at you. The only reason that you parading the same photo repeatedly is to be obnoxious and have no response to the assertion that he was avoiding eye contact during the night AS A WHOLE. Note: We know you have the same photo, milliseconds apart. Anything else?
OK IROC, enough of this crap. Stop putting words into my mouth. I never said McCain did not ever look Obama in the eye. I said he avoided doing so. You are making sh** up and you need to stop it before you make yourself look like MORE of a lying nutjob. You don't even deserve this reply, and its a freaking miracle you're not breaking the cherry of my ignore list right now. But since you want to play the "lets be a little kid game", here is something you might understand. I posted more photos than you, so obviously I am the winnar. If you do not refute your assertion, apologize to me and the entire BBS, and recuse yourself from this forum for the rest of the campaign, your legacy here shall be forever tarnished. Be a man and wipe the egg off your face. See how annoying it is when someone acts like a total jerk?
Wow, I would love to join the eye contact debate, but... In my view, and the view of the other three libs I watched the debate with, we all felt better about the future of the country after the debate. I was reminded why I wanted McCain to win the primary. They were both very, very solid tonight, and that's good news for the country. A debate that doesn't create many soundbites, that sticks to substance more often than not, is a great debate. The moderation from Lehrer was very good, the candidates were prepared, and they went at it. I could nitpick and talk about why I prefer one to the other, but overall, it was one of the better presidential debates I've seen in 28 years of watching.
I think Obama played it fairly safe in tonight's debate which was smart. He could have attacked a lot more and probably embarrassed McCain if he actually possessed Biden's foreign policy experience. Biden absolutely ripped McCain apart during his post debate commentary. I think that speaks volumes more than the actual debate. Lets be honest here. Even if McCain won by a landslide in this debate which he did not ( I think they broke even although Obama seemed more Presidential), there's still the issue that Palin is his VP candidate. McCain's health is a very real concern and as knowledgeable as he is, I don't think he has a good VP to take his place should he actually die during his term. That alone is going to cripple him no matter how strong he is. I think Obama just has to play it safe and he should still win by a landslide. He does have the edge in the rest of the debates anyways so he should win in those as well. Again for the experience Obama lacks he's shown his knowledge of foreign and economic affairs beyond talking points that appeal to moderates. It also helps that his VP will help cover up his inexperience which so far doesn't even appear to be his weakness. I do think if he does win the primaries he will surround himself with the right staff that'll test him when he is wrong and help him do what is right. I think unfortunately, whoever does win has an enormous mess in front of them that can't be fixed in 4 years. 8 years would be damn near impossible as well.
Highlight of the night: When Obama effortlessly transitioned (?) from talking about Russia to...."WINTER'S COMIN'!" WINTER'S COMIN' Thanks for the heads up, Barack lol
If you were paying attention he was tying it in with an energy statement McCain made and was stating people are having a tough time paying for gas and when winter hits, and it's coming, a lot of people are going to have a tough time not only filling their car up but keeping their house warm.
Totally agree, too bad one of them is 72 years old with a history of cancer and chose a VP candidate that is not close to ready in case of emergency. McCain is the more risky pick now because of his poor choice and pandering to the religious right. DD
