The next time Obama does something like that it will be the first. I don't so much hate the "both sides do it" argument specifically. I hate all arguments that are demonstrably false but keep being repeated by otherwise reasonable people. As I said in your new thread, I missed you in the Krugman thread. I would love it if you would actually address the "both sides do it" fallacy since you have put it forth on several occasions (from "it's true" to "it's mostly true" to "it's kind of true") though there is zero evidence for it. And instead of actually answering for it you have framed it as a matter of me bickering and saying you wouldn't sink to my level. Krugman is, of course, far more reasoned and eloquent on this than I am. I would be really interested in your response to his column.
I've told you on several occasions I've started a practice of not answering questions from someone who never returns the favor. Of course your post is idiotic, as they always are, but that's the only response you're getting from me until you start answering anything yourself.
I did read the Krugman article and he makes some good points but haven't had the chance to read through the whole thread and will get to it when I can. That said I've stated my piece before and I am asking you an honest question to get a thoughtful response. If you are going to get petty again about it then I will drop it.
If by stating your position you mean when you downgraded a completely false accusation from both sides do it to both sides mostly do it, an equally false statement, I would say that you are just not debating honestly. I will give you the benefit of the thoughtful response you have repeatedly denied me though. I gave it in short form already. Here's the longer form. You set up a highly speculative scenario (which you rightly acknowledged) that has no precedent and no basis even in imagination where it comes to this president. Even though you continue to insist he's like the others, there is no evidence of this. So, while your scenario was fun to read, it was like fan-fiction. As I said before, if he does anything like that it will be radical behavior given everything we know about him and it will be the first time he's done anything remotely similar to the scene you painted. If that happens, I will issue appropriate mea culpas and give you props for finally being right (once) on a thing you have so often been wrong. Please don't take this personally. I am curt with you because I believe you are a reasonable person but you have absolutely dodged this most important of fallacies and have chosen to stick by them instead, despite all facts to the contrary. I admit when I'm wrong all the time (here, all the time). You should try it. It's good for the soul.
When you're dealiing with a group of assholes and idiots who want to do this whole charade again before the election.
So, absent any evidence to the contrary, one must assume, Obama's (and Batman's) position is "politics as L'usual"?
Politically, I think it's better -- or at least safer -- for both parties. This thing is carrying a million volts and there's no telling which side will get electrocuted this time or the next time. The Democrats have a more valuable piece in play with the presidency, but I can see a scenario in which voter sentiment turns hard on the tea party and the House goes back to Democrats. Some people give Obama a lot of flak for his politicking, but I think he's playing this one fairly well. I thought the way he put all the blame on Boehner after he walked out on the negotiation was a great political move. I haven't seen surveys yet on the "who is to blame?" but he seems to at least have most of the press on his side. And, I think he could parlay a default into a political victory by hanging all the blame around the tea party's neck.
Everything. The GOP has long argued that uncertainty is one of the big reasons for the economy not growing. How does having another debt fight in 6 months provide any certainty for this country? How is having this fight in the middle of a Presidential election apolitical?
He doesn't. He did it because he needed to pass a bill out of the House to save face and not lose his speakership. The specifics of the bill are irrelevant because everyone knows it was never going anywhere in the Senate.
A default is not the same as a government shutdown, which really has very little long term consequence. A default will lead to a pretty significant 2nd recession - and potentially much worse in the form of higher interest rates and a bigger budget deficit when all our debt gets refinanced. There is ZERO chance of Obama coming out ahead politically with a default. Zero, nil, nothing. Even if he were to win a 2nd term, it would be wasted because he wouldn't be able to do anything but continue trying to save a sinking ship..
I would love to debate. I've asked you now about a dozen times to back up your claim with anything and you flatly refuse to do it. basso-rific! You are better than this. You don't have to agree with me to debate, you only have to support your argument. So far you have refused to do so.
No, you're wrong as usual. Others have given you the evidence, and you haven't responded, and aren't likely to do so. It's why most people don't engage in discussions with you.
it's the debt that's the problem, not a debt fight. until democrats get serious about the former, there will always be the latter.
Democrats aren't the cause of the debt problem. And as Obama demonstrated by his openness to cut SS, Medicare, Defense, and raise taxes, it's not Dems that are unwilling to address the problem. Besides which, Reid's bill cuts more spending than Boehner's anyway. And yes, this is a debt ceiling fight. Spending cuts can be made during budget negotiations. If the GOP wants to make a stand on that, they can during the next budget fight in September - in case you have forgotten, this budget we are currently on was agreed to by Republicans, who now are running away from paying for their own budget.
What Major said, plus this: federal debt is not that bad, and it's not why markets are so uncertain. The US is nowhere near default unless the psychos that you're supporting force it to.
