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Texas vs. California: what happens when liberals are in charge

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by bigtexxx, May 1, 2014.

  1. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    Scoreboard, Cali.

    Toyota just chose Texas over California, to continue the trend...

    When will the liberals in California wake up?

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/dalebus...california-this-aint-over-when-toyota-leaves/

    Texas v. California: This Ain't Over When Toyota Leaves

    About the only things they have in common are severe drought and the blessings of high-tech-industry havens in really cool cities. So, long-simmering tensions between Texas and California are breaking into the open over the poaching of Toyota’s North American headquarters.

    The tone has been set at the top by battling governors. Barbs aplenty also are flying across the miles and over the internet between rank-and-file defenders of the deep-blue Pacific Coast way of life and blood red-state denizens of the tumbleweed who have the upper hand in this particular turn of events.


    Typical of the vitriol is the back-and-forth between fans of California and Texas in the comment string attached to this contributor’s first story on the move.

    “The State of California is doomed thanks to the liberal voters and their voting choices,” wrote Mike Ladwig on Monday, in one of the very first comments. “California 60 years ago was a wonder to behold.”

    Apparently deeply offended, one Ken Wallace responded directly to that comment, “It is now common practice for red states to emulate the 3rd world to attract business. Why go to Asia to exploit labor, the environment and collect corporate welfare when we have states right here with politicians eager for bribes.”

    And so on. The point is that, while Californians understand their state is actively hostile to most businesses, many simply believe that’s a penalty companies, entrepreneurs, CEOs and employees are — and should be — willing to pay to live in the greatest place on earth.

    So when California splendor proved not to be enough to keep Toyota happy in Southern California any more, after a 57-year stay, it rocked the state’s foundations as surely as any tremor along the San Andreas Fault.

    Meanwhile, Texans are only too happy to bring umbrellas to watch it rain on California’s parade. Over the last half-century, California and Texas have traded more Americans than any other states — and almost all of them have moved from the coast to Texas. Since 1990, Los Angeles specifically has lost 3.1 percent of its employment base, more than Cleveland (0.2 percent) and Detroit (2.8 percent), according to new research by UCLA and cited by the Wall Street Journal.

    Texas Gov. Rick Perry set a typically aggressive tone when crowing about Toyota’s decision on Monday. “It is the biggest win we’ve had in a decade,” he told the Journal. “Ten years of tax, regulatory, legal and educational policies have now put Texas at the top of the heap.”


    In the case of Toyota’s move as in the dozens of previous instances of Texas theft of California businesses, Texans will benefit in many ways. And they can’t think of anyone better than Californians to take the loss.

    If you look at a state of Texas economic-development web site and a page titled “Texas vs. California,” you might think no sane business executive could make a different decision than Toyota did. Unemployment rates as of last July: 6.5 percent in Texas, 8.5 percent in California. State income tax: “0″ percent in Texas, 1 to 10.3 percent in California. Building permits issued in 2012: 135,514 in Texas, 58,549 in California. And there’s much more

    “California has this ‘gotcha’ mentality instead of asking, ‘How can we help?’” businesses, said John Kabateck, head of the National Federation of Independent Business in the state. “And unlike larger businesses and corporations, small businesses usually don’t have the luxury to leave. Many of our members tell us they feel trapped.”

    But an assessment by California Gov. Jerry Brown in the wake of Toyota’s announcement pretty much summed up the approach taken by many Californians. “We’ve got a few problems, we have lots of little burdens and regulations and taxes, but smart people figure out how to make it” in the state, he said at an event in Lancaster, Calif., with Chinese electric-vehicle maker BYD , according to the Journal.

    Of course, such bravado only thinly masked the resignation that was felt by other Californians, including the mayor of the city that Toyota largely is abandoning.

    “When any major corporation is courted by another state, it’s very difficult to combat that,” Torrance, Calif., Mayor Frank Scotto told the Los Angeles Times. “We don’t have the tools we need to keep major corporations here … A company can easily see where it would benefit by relocating someplace else.”

    Meanwhile, typical of the slings and arrows arcing from California to Texas are strong critiques of the general level of learning in Texas by Californians who think their education system is superior.

    “A lot of people would rather donate their bodies to science while still alive than move to a place like” Plano, Texas, one commenter wrote. “They probably have laws forbidding smart conversations and whole sentences.”


    But Texas’s defenders are quick to rebut that charge. Some note Los Angeles’s own failing public schools. And Texas apparently has been smart enough to absorb the influx of many other huge relocations before Toyota’s.

    “Other relocations came amid concerns about qualified workers in Texas,” said Bernard Weinstein, an economic-development expert at Southern Methodist University. “But whether you’re talking about medium-skilled workers or technicians and engineers, it’s not going to be an issue. We have a huge labor pool at all skill levels, and they’re fairly sophisticated technologically.

    “I don’t think it’ll be a problem,” Weinstein said. And Plano itself “has a very good public school system. And we have some excellent suburban school systems where, I assume, most of the kids [of Toyota staffers] will be attending. Our good school districts are as good as California’s” even though teachers on average are paid more in California, he said.

    What’s more, noted the Journal, the UCLA study said that “flourishing metro areas like Houston and San Antonio with low-educated workforces make up for their skills deficit by being far more hospitable to business.” Meanwhile, the newspaper opined, “L.A.’s hostile business environment harms the poor and middle class far more than the affluent.”

    The two Texas cities, for example, received an overall grade of A+ on the Thumbtack Small Business Friendliness Survey. Los Angeles County got a D, with sub-grades of D+ for the tax code, D for licensing, D for regulation, D for zoning and D+ for ease of starting a business.
     
  2. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    They are wasting great weather IMO.
     
  3. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost not wrong
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    http://www.houstonchronicle.com/new...t-a-deciding-5443340.php?t=022b73164bb05374ef

    Toyota says $40 million incentive not a deciding factor in move

    The $40 million incentive Gov. Rick Perry offered Toyota to relocate its headquarters to Texas was not a deciding factor in the automaker's move, company representatives said this week, raising questions anew over the need and appropriateness of the taxpayer-funded grants awarded to major, established companies, including some multibillion-dollar corporations.

    Toyota is poised to announce a record profit of more than $23 billion for fiscal 2013.

    The world's top-selling automaker announced this week its intention to consolidate three North American headquarters - currently in California, Kentucky and New York - into a "single, state-of-the-art campus" in the Dallas suburb of Plano, and move up to 4,000 employees to the Lone Star State.

    The $40 million Texas Enterprise Fund, or TEF, grant did not factor heavily into the move, company spokespeople said.

    "That wasn't one of the major reasons (in) deciding to go to Texas," Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. Business Communications Specialist Amanda Rice told the Houston Chronicle. Instead, company representatives referenced a host of other factors, including geography, time zone and quality of life.

    "We needed a site that was closer to our manufacturing operations, in a neutral location, one without an existing Toyota presence. When considering whether to make an investment decision of this magnitude, economic incentives are one of many factors we consider," said Steven Curtis of Toyota Corporate Communications.

    The acknowledgment dredges up concerns raised by lawmakers and government watchdogs after the announcement of similar economic development grants, including the $12 million incentive package offered to Chevron last year to build a Houston office tower, and the $21 million handed to Apple in 2012 to expand its footprint in Austin.

    The $40 million offered to Toyota marks the largest award handed out by Perry's office in nearly a decade.

    The governor's office long has defended the Texas Enterprise Fund and other incentives as part of Texas' business-friendly atmosphere, calling it a "deal-closing" mechanism to help lure businesses to the state.
    Gov. Rick Perry regularly touts the state's low-tax, low-regulation environment in hopes of luring companies to Texas.

    Reed Saxon, STF

    Gov. Rick Perry regularly touts the state's low-tax, low-regulation environment in hopes of luring companies to Texas.

    '$10,00 per job'

    "Why does Toyota need it? Ten thousand dollars per job is chump change for this company," Texans for Public Justice Director Craig McDonald said. "It's a PR fund for the governor. If this fund wasn't there, Perry couldn't say, 'I did this.'"

    Greg LeRoy, executive director of Washington, D.C.-based Good Jobs First and noted opponent of corporate subsidies, agreed: "You're taking credit for something that would have happened otherwise. This is a $40 million photo-op, grip-and-grin press release for Rick Perry, at the taxpayers' expense."

    Perry regularly travels the country, touting the state's low-tax, low-regulation business-friendly environment in hopes of luring companies to Texas. The state's economy was a focal point of his failed presidential campaign in 2012, and is expected to be again, should he decide to run again in 2016.

    Texas' myriad economic development packages have been under increased scrutiny in recent years, amid reports of mixed results and missed targets by companies that received the incentives. Fort Worth Sen. Wendy Davis, the Democratic nominee for governor, spearheaded legislation with state Rep. John Davis, R-Houston, during the 2013 legislative session to require regular audits of the Texas Enterprise Fund, which is controlled by the governor's office. The gubernatorial candidate since has doubled-down on those concerns, indicating she would institute changes to the fund if elected.

    Rep. John Davis' House Economic and Small Business Committee is at work on a report looking at the TEF and other incentive programs, and held a hearing last week to look at the viability of these funds.

    Fighting competition

    Perry spokeswoman Lucy Nashed insisted on the continued necessity of the fund, noting more and more states vying for such large-scale projects are offering similar incentives packages.

    "The enterprise fund is a competitive tool. So, they are looking to close on a project that would have otherwise gone elsewhere," Nashed said. "There was competition for it, and we wanted to bring these 4,000 jobs to Texas."

    Toyota also will receive a local economic incentive package of property tax abatements, grants, and inspection and building fee waivers, Plano Mayor Harry Larosiliere said.

    Most grants from the Texas Enterprise Fund require matching incentives from local governments that are home to the expanding or relocating businesses.

    Nashed and Larosiliere cited the potential multiplier effects on the community from Toyota's move, including additional tourism, sales tax collections and 4,000 additional workers that would spend up to $225 million per year on taxable goods and services, according to Austin-based consulting firm Impact DataSource.

    Subsidy not for all

    State Rep. Lyle Larson, R-San Antonio, said he saw the positive impact Toyota has made in his community after the automaker decided to move its pickup truck manufacturing plant there more than a decade ago. Though a general supporter of the Texas Enterprise Fund, Larson said he has heard concerns from some local businesses that do not benefit from state or local incentives.

    "At times, the package has been to the detriment to businesses that have already been in the community," he said. "We've heard from a number of companies that the state is so enamored of attracting new companies that we don't focus on retaining the jobs that are already here. There needs to be a fresh look at what we're participating in, why we're participating and is it needed."
     
  4. Haymitch

    Haymitch Custom Title
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    Never been to Plano. What's it's Houston-area equivalent?
     
  5. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    [​IMG]
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    Closest thing might be Sugar Land, although Sugar Land might be more diverse (but not by a whole lot, actually). Plano is a high-class suburb, but not as high class (or beautiful) as say The Woodlands.
     
  7. REEKO_HTOWN

    REEKO_HTOWN I'm Rich Biiiiaaatch!

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    The Woodlands. Plano has a lot of cash.
     
  8. lpbman

    lpbman Member

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    Texas economy is only 70% of Cali... Do you know what a scoreboard is?
     
  9. g1184

    g1184 Member

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    Does your scoreboard reset to 1-0 as soon as Texas scores a bucket, or does it keep track of the entire game?
     
  10. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    The Woodlands is way nicer than Plano. No DFW suburb touches The Woodlands.

    Plano is more like Sugar Land. Also a lot of cash, but more diverse and similar low levels of scenery.
     
  11. mc mark

    mc mark Contributing Member

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    we're #1

    Texas has the highest uninsured rate in the nation.

    Drawing on U.S. Census Bureau research, the Kaiser Family Foundation said 24 percent of Texas residents in 2012 had no health insurance, followed by Nevada (23 percent) and Florida (21 percent.) Nationwide, the uninsured rate was 15 percent.
     
  12. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    quite similar numbers on a per capita basis.

    ...and the cost of living in Texas is much lower, so one could argue advantage Texas

    pwn3d
     
  13. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    Jerry > Arnold
     
  14. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    They squandered their beautiful weather.
     
  15. g1184

    g1184 Member

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    by "similar" you mean Texas has a lower per-capita income. not so "pwn3d."

    Texas also has a higher Gini index (means more economic inequality), and a significantly higher poverty rate.

    so, one could argue what you said ... but that person would probably be a clown.

    for everybody else, here's the wikipedia sources: California vs. Texas
     
  16. lpbman

    lpbman Member

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    I guess you don't know what scoreboard means.

    "one could argue" lol
     
  17. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Texas is a better buy than California and the needle is pointing up for Texas and down for California....
     
  18. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    bingo

    California is bleeding. and Texas is booming
     
  19. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    If you want to look at conservatives in charge, what about Miss, Ala, Ark? Balance is the key, too much government programs is not good, too little does not work either.
     
  20. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    If I was a parent I would much rather raise my children in liberal bastions such as Massachusetts where public k-12 puts Texas k-12 to shame. Though Texas does have a great public university system.
     

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