Significantly more natural talent than Arkansas? How can you say this when Arkansas simply ran the ball down the throats of the UT defense time and again? The pollsters aren't buying that argument either, as Arkansas is ranked higher. They beat UT fair and square at UT's home. There really should be no excuses like what you have provided. You've bought into the UT hype. Either UT is the most overrated, overhyped team in the country, or the coaches are just that bad. One of those two choices must be true. If one were not true, then UT would have a ring to show for it -- that's a conference ring, not a championship ring by the way.
Ok, fine. I'm perfectly comfortable with you thinking that if you'd like. I understand you don't like Texas - but your post simply is malicious. I'm also perfectly open to the idea that Arkansas might have a better football team than UT. But in pure physical talent, it wasn't close. Unless, of course, recruiting truly is meaningless. And superior training facilities really are meaningless. And evidence of other games for the past couple of years is meaningless. Hell, just look at both teams games against "crappy" opposition this year. Arkansas wasn't able to athletically destroy them - Texas was. Yet when the two teams played, Arkansas seemed to have a clear athletic advantage. Sorry, a single game is merely indicative of who was better in a single game. And I'm not even making the much more speculative statement that UT is better than Arkansas - merely that they're more physically talented. Very few people are going to argue there's more physical talent there - not even that many Arkansas fans, judging from much of their bbs material. Incidentally, what are you going to say if Texas finishes with a significantly superior season to Arkansas? Under my theory, I can reconcile a single game blip. I don't understand exactly how it happened, but it doesn't make my theory absurd. Yours? It's torn to pieces. Essentially, you'd be claiming that Texas was athletically superior - since they had a better season - but during 1 game, somehow, Arkansas' players were athletically superior. I may not be an expert when it comes to weight and agility training - but this sounds very unlikely to me. As for titles... I happen to think that Brown is an excellent recruiter and a bad game coach. Unlike others, I don't necessarily believe there's an innate inferiority in such coaches. You pick your poison - having a great gameday coach who can't recruit isn't really any better. I think that if Brown gets enough time, he'll probably get a title. TBH, I think he's more like Bobby Bowden than anybody else. He certainly seems to model Texas after those FSU teams, just without the running up the score and thuggery. FSU, also, always underachieved relative to talent. Ideally, of course, you'd have a coach that can both recruit well and coach well on the field.
For some reason, wouldnt' allow an edit: To put all that mess succinctly: By TJ's standard, there's no such thing as a true upset - only Vegas upsets. Unfortunately, the fact that 3-9teams occasionally beat 9-3teams (and once in a while, even out play them), sort of puts the lie to this assertion.
Haven, it is hard to call an outright whipping, in which one team completely dominated another on their home field, an 'upset'. You make it sound like a couple of fluke plays cost UT the game -- which is not the case. If UT runs the table on their schedule, and Arkansas falters along the way, then yes, I think UT wil be ranked higher. But *until* that scenario plays out, it is not right to say that UT is the better team. You have no proof of this. The only data points we have to judge are the game between the two teams and the other games they have played *this year*. What has UT shown this year that makes you think they are better than Arkansas? Nothing. And that is why you are wrong to make such a statement, haven. You would think that you would have learned your lesson after eating so much crow earlier in the year.
I think it's pretty obvious that this is the case. Experts have ranked UT's recruiting classes very high the past five years or so. Are you saying that the Arkansas loss makes them wrong?
I dont think so.... I think that nobody accounted for Arkansas being as good as they are. Not only did they win against us, but they won last weekend too.... Seeing as they did that, I'm not so terribly upset at our loss to them 2 weeks ago. UT has had a darn good recruit class the past several years, but they aren't wrong about it being as good as they are. We just need better coaching.
I think what he meant by "better team" is more talented. I don't think any knowledgeable fan would argue this. You can hear numerous people agree on this- from the talking heads on ESPN, to many columnists, to the actual recruit rankings, to comments by other coaches. The problem is that our coaches have not always put our players in the best position to win. Yes, it's not completely the coaches fault, but it is more a reason than anything else. Many of the same problems have been around for the last few years on offense, defense, special teams punting, attitude and player development. These are all systemic problems that even the greatest players in the world cannot bypass. Conservative offense, poor fundamentals, over-schemed defenses, etc. We've seen it over and over, and heard the same excuses over and over. I do think the Tulane game was encouraging though. There were some things that still haven't changed, but some of the stuff that did change would be VERY encouraging if it stays for the whole season. We played horribly on defense against Arkansas. Our offense, even constrained by Greg Davis (or Mack Brown, we really don't know who's REALLY calling the conservative plays) still managed to put up enough points to win, but of course if one does okay the other does bad. So, what's frustrating to all of us is that we truly are not playing up to our potential. I think we could stand a loss or two in a season, but it's not that we lose, but how we're losing. We're not the only team with tons of talent that has been underachieving (Florida, Michigan, Tennessee), but expectations are just really high here. We expect to be with Oklahoma and Miami. What's scary is Oklahoma is closing (if not already closed) the talent gap and starting to take players we really wanted (Bomar) and threatening to take even more (Peterson). These next two games will say a ton about what direction the next few years will be like. Even if we won the next two, there's still Tech, OSU, Nebraska, and even aggy, so it could be a long season. Anyway, no Texas is not overrated or overhyped talent wise, but is repeatedly underachieving. So if we could ever play to our potential, it would be damn scary.
Let me answer RM95's point -- his mindset is representative of many's and I think it is flawed. His opinion of UT's talent is based in part on the rankings of recruiting classes. Let's be clear on what the talent level of a recruiting class really means. It means that *coming out of high school*, experts think that the players have talent. What is missing from a complete evaluation of the talent level of UT players is *how they have progressed since high school*. This is a key point in a player's development that cannot be ignored. You can be the best player in the nation coming out of high school, but if you do not progress as a player when you are in school, you can not expect to continue to maintain that talent ranking. Ask Odell James at Baylor, for instance. The work of players and coaches does not end once a player is recruited, and players are capable of improving and regressing once they are in college. Do not lose sight of this as you evaluate the talent level of teams.
Exactly. We have the best players coming out of high school (along with USC, Miami, Michigan, Ohio State, some of the SEC schools, and now Oklahoma), but we are struggling with player development. That's why people b**** about our coaching so much, and point to Longhorns who were okay in college, doing pretty well for themselves in the NFL. Still, no matter how you want to evaluate talent (physical size & speed, strength, HS rankings) UT has one of the most talented teams in the nation, but players are not getting the most out of their talent and are not being put in a situation to fully display their talent.
I think the players are doing OK personally, or they wouldn't make it at all in the NFL. I think it's the team's character that lacks.
See, I think the coaches have a significant role in "their progression." I blame Mack and Mad Dog a bit on this. I could say that Mack recruits overrated players, but since Mack has been there, I think Stoops (who I think can coach, recruit and evaluate) talent offered at least 30 a scholarship. Mack has probably whiffed on a few players, true, but every coach has. Even Trev Alberts (who hates UT) says that UT has alot of talent, in his words, "the most in the nation." OF course, I think Trev is an idiot. that 2000 UT starting defense (the one that allowed 63 to OU) will have at least 7 players on it that have played and will play in the nfl. DD Lewis, Jammer, Redding, Thornton, Brooks, Rogers, Hampton, Wilkins. And, I think the 2003 edition is deeper. I don't know how you measure talent, but I would think that the 2003 Longhorns will have more players in the nfl than the Hawgs when it's all said and done. If the outcome of one game were the determinant of "talent," then there would never be any true upsets, right? You can't tell me that when ULaLa beat ATM in 1996 that they were more talented than ATM, can you? So, either Mack is getting the wrong players, not developing properly, or he isn't coaching them properly. I think the talent is there to win it all. I think it's been there and will be there for the next couple of years. I'm not taking anything away from Arkansas. They played better and manhandled the Horns. But, I just don't believe that Mack put his players in a position to succeed. I know you don't like how haughty our fans can be, but you may want to find another way to attack the Horns. The talent is there.
I was thinking the same thing. I know it's just Tulane, but last year, we couldn't even run the ball on Baylor. Kansas had more rushing yards against OU in one game than we have had in three. To me, there's no way you can tell me that KU is more talented. We look better in the blowouts this year versus last. But, it is still Tulane, although they played a ranked TCU team tough. But, this coaching staff has burned me too many times to where I'll call a victory over KSU or a competitive game versus OU this year. Could they win both games? I think so, but I wouldn't bet on it. I do have a good feeling about this weekend though.
gr8-1- I agree with most of what you said, but I think there are many people that could be looked at before Mad Dog. I don't know very specifically how Mad Dog trains the players, so I'm not going to make a judgement on him. I do know that there are many other fundamental problems that exist -tackling the last few years, catching the ball last year, among others. These are placed on our position coaches. I think these are lesser problems than the actual offense and defense schemes, but if you want to call out Mad Dog, then you should probably call out most of the position coaches other than Tolleson, McWhorter and a few others. Cohen-I agree that the team's character lacks. I don't know if it seeps down from Mack Brown's aw shucks/we're a happy family attitude or what. We don't necessarily need a head coach that's young and passionate like Stoops, but we do need one of our coordinators to be so or someone other than Mad Dog to set the team's tone. I disagree that just because the players do well in the NFL doesn't mean they were not developed well in college. There have been several examples of this being the case.
Where is all of the Coogs fans. 4-1 and Kevin Klob has not thrown an interception all season. This true freshmen as great field vision. I know it's a bit off topic, but come on. Let's show some support.
Its because the Coogs will loose there next 3 games in a row. So everyone is scared to talk about it.
Start a new thread and I'm there! Anyone on this board that goes to the "College Gameday" taping before the game needs to make a sign with some sort of cc.net reference. Something subtle and "inside" that only we would understand.
