Yes, and clearly Europe and Canada are being destroyed by their secularism. French citizens, who regularly riot and strike to make their government concede to their demands, likely are just bored and don't have any 'will to fight' at all. Please provide proof that the moral, religious base of this country is what has made it 'grow strong'. In particular, please show how Christianity (because there are lots of different moral, religious bases) is responsible for the qualities (please list them) that signify our strength.
Your justification for Christianity in government sounds suspiciously similar to how theocracies have justified their governments, including those of Iran and the former Taliban regime....
To be fair, many of the founders were Christians who did not want to be told HOW to practice Christianity. Others (like Jefferson) wanted religion completely removed from governance. If all of the founders had the aversion to God that many seem to think, phrases like endowed by their creator, all men are created equal, Heaven, the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God, and divine Providence would not appear in the declaration of independence and other historical documents. The reasoning behind the religious part of the first amendment was to avoid what happed in England where the state established a national church. Saying under God in a pledge to the state or the nation doesn't come close to that.
I love it how you all ask me to provide examples while making broad brushed comparisons. Classic ploy when you have no ground to stand on. In WWII while "Men" were on the battlefront there are countless cases of prayer to a "God" before a fight with men of all different backgrounds sharing a common bond. They were willing to die for freedom and the right of their beliefs. Countless Presidents wrote letters and diaries praying to "God" to guide them in these perilous times. Lincohn, Rooselvelt, Reagan, etc. The last time I checked the majority ruled in this country, not the "minority" God Bless America!
Has it ever occurred to you to consider just what "freedom of religion" means? Some people believe in Gods, not God. Some don't believe in either. And that is putting aside the huge differences between the world's religions. You have a jingoistic viewpoint towards your religion, and there is no doubt, regardless of how you parse it, that you believe your religion should be everywhere in our society, whether everyone believes in it, or not, or whether everyone believes in a religion at all. You don't want freedom of religion, which is also freedom from religion... you want freedom for your religion to trump all else. The Founding Fathers would ardently disagree with you, as do I. Impeach Bush and Cheney, the Godless Cretins.
But the minority are protected here. Which is a very good thing. Look, what do you think this is doing? Do you think people's lives are transformed for the better because of this? Does it do anything but divide and polarize? If you believe in the same God I do, then you know there's no such thing as kicking him out of our schools. I'm thinking God is a little bigger than that.
Actually, I'm not so sure. I'm not sure we can rely on what the Founders meant at the time for these ideas. The First Amendment protected state theocracies (and that's what many of them were) from federal theocracy. It's the Methodists telling the Anglicans, "we wanna rule our state this way...not your way!" Other than Jefferson, I think we'd be hard-pressed to find evidence that they had atheists in mind with the First Amendment. And even Jefferson wrote: "Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God?" But in the end, I'm with you. And honestly...I don't want people feeling compelled by government to worship or acknowledge any God. As a believer, I find nothing authentic about that at all. That flag has stood for a lot of beautiful and true things...it's also stood for some very shameful things. I don't want an equation between that and the God I love.
The Taliban and the Ayatollahs in Iran continuously pray to Allah and use the fact that their respective countries has to follow the word of Allah (the Koran) more closely than they were doing before to justify their rule. Al-Qaeda kills people every day for Allah. From an atheist's perspective, your attitude is no different from theirs. What you want is a Christian theocracy a.k.a a Christian version of Iran.
Oh you mean the human race? Europeans had slaves long before America and if you look back in history just about every society at some point had slaves. So don't try and pin this as an isolated American incident. Heck the Africans were selling their own people for money to the Anglos. But this has really nothing to do with the topic. Well the facts don't lie. The people have given up a lot of freedoms to the government. The governments are corrupt and have bankrupted the countries. Why do you think they pushed so hard for the EU and the Euro? Canada has become a nanny state run amuck with secularism, sky rocketing divorce rates, sexual promiscuity.....shall I continue? Go read the writings and letters of the founding fathers. Go read the memiors of some of the great men who have led this country. You will see it! Honestly, I don't want the government telling me to do anything. But I also don't think that we should make sweeping changes because a minority group feels offended by something. This country and government were set up to give a voice to everyone, but with the intent that majority rules the day. We have a group in the ACLU who hide behind a cloak of "we are here to protect you from yourself" but are run by a bunch of admitted communists and Marxists. They stick there nose into every aspect of our lives in a bias manner and try to use the courts to get their way. Which is usually opposite of what the "majority of the people" want. You have a democratic party who make every attempt to use the court system to make laws, in essence an oligarchy, rather then enforce the ones on the books. I just can't idly stand by and let a small group of people attack things that have made this nation great.
That's not quite accurate. This law though passed by the Texas legislature is being enacted in institutions supported by federal funds and therefore the separation of church and state clause should most certainly apply.
It's cute how you people always crow on about the 1st amendment, but forget about the subsequent amendments! Uh, they pushed hard for the Euro to improve economic conditions, and it worked? Just look at the USD-EUR exchange rate. Also, there's no secularism or sexual promiscuity in that bastion of upstanding moral values, the United States! P.S. The US's divorce rate is the highest in the western world, you hypocrite http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-07-18-cohabit-divorce_x.htm
Hypocrite? You people? You just made my point for me. Look back at the escalation for divorce in the US. You will see a telling parallel between the 1960 free sex baby boomers, the birth control pill, a rise in sexual promiscuity, among others. Interesting how divorce rates climb as morality and honor decline. I might also add that right before the 1960's was a notable point in history where our country was being invaded by communists hell bent on ruining our great society. After the MacCarthy era they moved into the Universities to become professors and low and behold the 1960's where sex, drugs and rock-n-roll was the mantra.
No nation at any point in history treated slaves with more cruelty than did the American slave owners. Please show me the facts that prove Canada is run amok with secularism, and sexual promiscuity. As far as the EU they wanted it to compete in a global market, and it is doing very well. What freedoms do you believe they have given up? You forgot the part that the majority rules the day, but only if the minority is protected. That is part of the set-up from the very beginning. You don't know what you are talking about with regards to the ACLU. But speaking of freedoms, in this nation there is nothing illegal about being a marxist communist, and running as many organizations as you want. The Democrats attempt to use the court to make laws? hahahaha. Let's look at the courts and the laws made starting with the supreme court and the election of 2000. Let's look at which cases conservatives point to and accuse the judges of creating laws, and how many of those judges are actually Republicans and/or appointed by Republicans. Your misunderstanding of America's constitution and purpose of it, is on a very grand scale. We have rarely seen such a huge misunderstanding on this board.
Your history is lacking in some huge facts, and you have shown no correlation. You point to some things that happened at the same time, and claim that means that one caused the other. Let's look at Childhood obesity since the conservative Reagan revolution. It has skyrocketed. That must mean that Conservatives are trying to ruin our nation by creating generations of sickly, unhealthy, and rotund children. I will not stand by and allow conservatives in their agenda to create unhealthy generations of Americans. You think morality decreased sense the 60's? You are insane. The biggest immorality of the 20th century has not been a high divorce rate but segregation, discrimination, and the fact that a large chunk of our nation weren't even allowed to vote, get a good education, based on their race. Notice how that didn't change until liberals in the 60's started getting the legislation they'd been hoping for finally passed. There is nothing immoral about the Pill. I think part of the divorce rate comes from the fact that after the 60's and 70's it was women were no longer to scared to want the same things as men. They didn't have to suffer through oppressive marriages when they really wanted to be in Universities carving out their own careers and expanding their own learning. Prior to the 60's our nation was not being invaded by communists. It is also is perfectly legal and legitimate for communists to operate freely inside our nation.
I was gonna reply here, but I have no idea where to start - I've never seen so much misinformation dispensed in such a short time in the D&D, and that's really saying something.
And don't forget those who don't believe, but haven't ruled it out, entirely. Good post, as always, Max. You're one of my favorite voices here whenever religion pops up as a topic. You're everything Fox News isn't... fair and balanced. D&D. Impeach Bush and Cheney.
