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Texas Power Grid

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by deb4rockets, Feb 17, 2021.

  1. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    SPP is under a resource advisory right now (that's one level down from conservation orders). MISO is also predicting peak demand to exceed regularly available capacity this summer. Even if we had interconnections to neighboring RTOs, I don't know if anyone would want to export to us when they need the power for their own markets. What imports would do is compete with in-state resources when the grid is not in crisis, reducing the investment case for building additional generation in Texas. I know people have seized on this island idea as the source of our troubles, but the truth is more complicated than that.

    It is, unfortunately, a multi-year process to build the solution.

    SPP (covers basically the Great Plains states north of us) just had conservation orders of their own that they lifted a couple days ago. Wisconsin warned of possible rolling blackouts 4 days ago. They had a warning in Utah in late June. Likewise Indiana earlier in June. It's not uncommon. It wasn't uncommon in Texas either. What is different is that we still have PTSD from Uri, so conservation alerts went from public service announcements to headline news. We still haven't done rolling blackouts in years. Hopefully, we can keep the streak alive.
     
  2. LondonCalling

    LondonCalling Member

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  3. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Sure I can, I am doing what is right for all the people.......by forcing the government to address the shortfalls of the grid.

    DD
     
  4. TheJuice

    TheJuice Member

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    What's more likely?

    You force your stubborn governor to change the grid? Or there's a mass outage this summer threatening disabled and elderly people? Would you cheat on a health inspection if you owned a restaurant to "force the government to enforce the health code easier? Do you hop subway turnstiles so that police will crack down on fare evasion?
     
  5. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    They already did make changes, after the February 2021 fiasco. Laws were passed, money was allocated, heads rolled and new leadership was appointed. So far it has actually worked very well. There have not been any significant blackouts since that wintertime event - a time when Texas has massive electric overcapacity available by the way.

    These public service warnings are responsible steps at peak times. No mandates, just voluntary efforts to make sure your lights are off if you are not using them and that your AC is maintained at a reasonable level.

    This is not actually a problem, pathetic whining and whingeing by the usual snowflake crybabies, nothwithstanding.
     
  6. jchu14

    jchu14 Member

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    What's the right way to read the supply and demand graph on ercot's website? Looking at the graph, it seems like the demand is projected to exceed 'quick start capacity'. Yet today is still condition green 'Normal Conditions', but Monday was yellow 'Energy Conservation Requested'.
    https://www.ercot.com/gridmktinfo/dashboards/supplyanddemand

    Is the dip in quick start capacity on the graph not real?
    [​IMG]
     
  7. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    I'm honestly not sure how to read it. I might look at it again in the evening to see how it updates. I suspect we're not just about to fall into crisis conditions, so I don't know why the capacity looks to be projected to be short. My guess is that the data that makes the "committed capacity" historical line has some generation that will probably show up in the future but is not included in the forecast line -- wind generation, maybe. ERCOT is not adept at communicating with the layman or the public; it's all inside baseball stuff.
     
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  8. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    I hear ya, but at some point you have to rock the boat, because compliance is letting them do things like take 4.6m from energy companies to NOT address the grid as Abbott did....

    So gotta force their hand....with peaceful protest.

    DD
     
  9. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    I know you don't see it, but work is being done.
     
  10. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    But I actually think this is fine. It's an example of the tragedy of the commons, where individuals refuse to do what's best for the collective good because their efforts would only be wasted by others' not doing what's best for the collective good. Some people cooperate in the short term, but no one's patience is infinite. It is on the industry to figure out how to keep the grid going while customers pursue their personal self interest. And we will.
     
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  11. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    I think it's not fine. It's just 3 days. But then again, it's every hot and cold snap it seems, and we know the climate is going to get worse, not better. Anyway, glad something is being done about it (?).
     
  12. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    We do not know anything of the sort.
     
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  13. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    lot of benefits to the climate warming. Fewer cold weather deaths for one. We never hear the cost-benefit assessment of a warming planet. And afaik climate scientists still cannot tell us what the "optimal" climate is
     
  14. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    Other transmission orgs use some mechanism to ensure that there is enough generation capacity. Typically, it's an auction where plants get paid for being available and then paid again for generating. But Texas was doing an energy-only scheme. Now they've hired a consultant to tell them the best way to pay for capacity. Once they stand that up, it'll be more profitable to build gas-fired plants and we will get more steel in the ground. Assuming they don't screw it up
     
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  15. Xerobull

    Xerobull ...and I'm all out of bubblegum
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    My smart thermostat just moved my AC to 78 due to high demand. It's never done that (that I've noticed).

    I can override it but my wife and I agreed to just let it ride until 7, which is when it says it will end the 78 temp.
     
  16. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    I do know this I have a friend/sorta that was on the board that reviewed the entire grid, didn't make any changes just did a big review....the way to win is to vote Beto in and Abbott out.

    DD
     
  17. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    I doubt that. I expect more extreme weather events and therefore more deaths.

    Lots of good reasons to vote Abbott out. I worry a little that Beto will meddle in power and screw things up. Don't know who your friend is, or which board he'd be on, but i think you are misled.
     
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  18. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    this is for the most part an understudied topic. nobody knows for sure. But that's part of the problem with climate policy science, it trends in one direction primarily.

    Lomborg continues to raise the question though. Not sure anyone with has picked up on the question to study it seriously

    Bjorn Lomborg: Climate change and deaths from extreme heat and cold
    For now, global warming reduces more deaths than it causes, saving possibly 100,000 lives each year

    https://financialpost.com/opinion/bjorn-lomborg-climate-change-and-deaths-from-extreme-heat-and-cold
     
  19. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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