1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Texas Power Grid

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by deb4rockets, Feb 17, 2021.

  1. txtony

    txtony Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    14,943
    Likes Received:
    10,413
    The winner and loser? Everyone is a loser (we all will be paying more in home ins, electricity, fed and state gov costs for years) except for a few in a disaster of this magnitude.

    Texas winter storm costs could top $200 billion — more than hurricanes Harvey and Ike - CBS News

    The Perryman Group, a Texas-based economic research firm, projected that Winter Storm Uri could end up costing a total of $195 billion on the low end and as much as $295 billion. Those figures include lost income as well as long-term reduction in economic output stemming from factories and businesses that closed during the storm.

    "In a worst-case scenario, it could be a little worse than Harvey. Best-case scenario, it's almost as bad as Ike," Ray Perryman, president and CEO of the Perryman Group, told CBS MoneyWatch.

    Hurricane Harvey, which slammed Houston in the summer of 2017, ranks with Hurricane Katrina in 2005 as the most destructive storm in U.S. history, causing $125 billion of physical damage in Texas and Louisiana. Hurricane Ike, which hit nine years earlier, was the second-most destructive, causing $30 billion in damage in Texas and Louisiana.

    Perryman cautioned that the estimates, based on conversations with insurance companies and economic models, were preliminary. Still, they highlight the unique nature of the storm, which blanketed the entire state for several days.
     
  2. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2002
    Messages:
    48,774
    Likes Received:
    34,652
    Literally a state wide ice hurricane... Hurricane Ice.
     
  3. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2002
    Messages:
    44,797
    Likes Received:
    41,695
  4. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    32,964
    Likes Received:
    20,703
    That's roughly 27 Benghazis so I expect 33*27 congressional hearings.
     
    London'sBurning likes this.
  5. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    39,316
    Likes Received:
    21,605
    Not being in Texas I don't follow the news there as closely. What is the Abbott Admin. doing to address the problems that happened and to prepare for if next year they get weather like this again?

    All I hear out of Abbott is lifting COVID-19 restrictions, turning the state into 2nd Amendment sanctuary, cutting back on access to voting, and blaming Biden.
     
  6. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2002
    Messages:
    44,797
    Likes Received:
    41,695
    ... and Texas republicans not only blame the power grid failure on renewable energy, but now want to add fees to renewable energy sources that will slow their development...

    state senator charles schwertner called wind and solar unreliable sources of energy because they can't be called up at a moments notice. He also claimed renewables get billions in federal subsidies that have tilted the market too much to benefit those sources. (ignoring the fact that fossil fuels get $20B in subsidies per year).

    https://www.houstonchronicle.com/po...te-passes-bill-aiming-to-counter-16062267.php
     
  7. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    31,917
    Likes Received:
    9,681
    It's probably not a fix-it-in-a-year kinda thing. There are lots of proposals in the TX Legislature which happens to be in session now (only once every 2 years). Many of them bad, but some not. Hopefully the good ideas prevail. The most immediate issue was to work out who pays for the last one, which is important because it sets the incentives for various private parties to inform what risk mitigation they do in the future. They debated repricing retrospectively but that's dead now.

    But, it's going to happen again, eventually. Polar vortexes knock out power plants, even in the north where winter weather is expected. They'll probably require weatherization instead of recommending it, but that won't make a difference. I think it's actually pretty miraculous that the grid works 99%+ of the time given its scope and complexity, so I guffaw a bit when people demand it keep working in the midst of natural disaster. Obviously, it's essential and the utilities will try as hard as they can to keep it up (except maybe in California), but it's not shocking to me that sometimes it would fail.

    The one liberal criticism I've come around to agreeing with is that the ERCOT grid is too small. SPP lost as much generation as ERCOT in this storm but were able to get more imports (until they weren't) and more importantly did not face a frequency crisis. In 2014, it was the same story for MISO North. I think the industry reflexively objects to interconnecting because Texas has a better market than other states and they don't want the feds screwing that up when they get oversight. But, I'm thinking the Texas model is mature enough now and understood and respected enough (at least in industry and academic circles) that the FERC won't want to change it. But I don't expect our leadership will go that way.

    The other thing I think would be good that they won't do is restructure the gas industry the way they've restructured the electric industry. Critics of the TX electric industry (liberals, mainly) think this is deregulation's fault and that deregulating more is ridiculous. But, one, this isn't deregulation's fault. And, two, deregulation saved Texas consumers billions of dollars in this disaster -- losses that shareholders of retail electric providers and generation companies shouldered instead of their customers. But gas customers will pay billions because gas utilities do not take any risk on gas supply but pass that risk to consumers. Restructure and customers won't face the risk that we can burn 3 years' supply budget in one week.
     
  8. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    13,545
    Likes Received:
    11,476
    https://www.houstonchronicle.com/po...te-passes-bill-aiming-to-counter-16062267.php


    Beside the fees on solar and wind producers, the legislation would create an alert system to warn Texans about impending power outages, and would require all electricity providers to weatherize their facilities and transmission lines — a major source of the midstorm power outages. It would also prohibit the wholesale electric index plans that resulted in astronomical bills for some consumers.
     
  9. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2000
    Messages:
    15,635
    Likes Received:
    8,589
  10. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    31,917
    Likes Received:
    9,681
    Sure they can, if you design it right. Not blaming the power outage on wind, but they disappeared on us when we could have really used them (and missed a golden opportunity to defend the honor of intermittent generation).
     
  11. CCorn

    CCorn Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2010
    Messages:
    17,271
    Likes Received:
    12,168
  12. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    32,964
    Likes Received:
    20,703
    I mean the design is just adding a heating element to the blades that are activated when vibrations are detected from increased mass from ice on a blade creating an imbalance. The system is already designed and patented.

    Also natural gas wells and piping froze also. So this isn't a situation where one system fared better than the other. It was a failure of all sources of energy due to a lack of foresight.
     
    #353 fchowd0311, Apr 13, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2021
    London'sBurning and mdrowe00 like this.
  13. CCorn

    CCorn Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2010
    Messages:
    17,271
    Likes Received:
    12,168
    Powers out in san Leon... Might be meth related though.
     
  14. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2002
    Messages:
    44,797
    Likes Received:
    41,695
    Folks in my neck of the world just got two emails/letters from the gas provider... one with the new gas bill, the other...

    Folks were incensed. Some are posting they received bills that were up to four times higher than normal (one showed their bill was over $500). Many were showing "winter event installment charges" in the hundreds. My wife and I (and our two daughters who were here then) are much more frugal and conserving and our bill was much lower and our added charge was $67.

    This was the deal that the gas company worked out with the state government Railroad Commission (George P Bush). Over the next 18 months we are paying for the freeze and the supplier's ability (or inability) to deal with it. The winter event charge will vary through the 18 months (assuming it goes way up during winter months... heavier sweater time!) and there is no guarantee that they won't extend it beyond 18 months. I think paxton has announced an investigation, but doubt that results in anything other than a campaign donation.

    Interesting that local residents that are proud of the state government and the lack of regulations are complaining the most.

    From a company point of view, I thought it interesting that the gas company chose this timing to announce "consolidation" and their name change...
     
  15. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    5,080
    Likes Received:
    6,793
    Get a generator folks cause it's gonna be one hell of a hurricane season.
     
  16. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    19,895
    Likes Received:
    13,079
    So the Texas GOP “deregulated” grid cannot handle 80 degrees now???

    It’s gonna be a long summer folks. Abbott and his boys sure do love being in the news for being the biggest jackasses in government now that Trump is gone.

    I wonder how many of the Fortune 500 companies that were moving to Texas are now worrying about their plants and office buildings losing power and production because of Texan sized jackasses like Abbott.
     
  17. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 1999
    Messages:
    66,967
    Likes Received:
    6,596
    I have full faith that the Cosplay Cowboys will get this fixed and we'll have the rootinest, tootinest power grid in the nation.
     
    CourtOfDreams likes this.
  18. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    39,316
    Likes Received:
    21,605
    As an outside observer it definitely seems to me like Abbot and most of TX government is more interested in fighting ideological issues than they are in managing TX.
     
    dobro1229 and Ziggy like this.
  19. Ziggy

    Ziggy 99ers STAND BY
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 1999
    Messages:
    34,434
    Likes Received:
    10,359
    Their entire platform is to complain and slander.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now