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Texas killed an innocent man - What should it do about it?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by SamFisher, Sep 10, 2009.

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rimrocker Member

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Excerpts from DMN story... can you say coverup?

The hearing of the Texas Forensic Science Commission, scheduled for Friday in Irving, was abruptly canceled by the new chairman the governor chose, Williamson County District Attorney John Bradley. He is considered one of the most conservative, hard-line prosecutors in Texas.
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Perry said his move was a typical use of his power on appointments, on which he has complete discretion. But Barry Scheck, co-director of the New York-based Innocence Project, compared the move to Richard Nixon during Watergate.

"This is like the Saturday night massacre," said Scheck, whose group also reviewed the Willingham case and found it lacking. "Rather than let this important hearing go forward and the report be heard, the governor fires the independent chairman and two other members of this commission. It's like Nixon firing [special prosecutor] Archibald Cox to avoid turning over the Watergate tapes."
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Bradley said he learned of the appointment Wednesday morning when he was called by the governor's office. He said it was not a position he sought.

He said he canceled Friday's commission meeting because he thought "it was too much to ask for myself and the new members to absorb," and because he wanted time to review the Beyler report and materials.

Bradley said he is not yet "informed enough" to know if he would ask Beyler to present his report at a future meeting or continue the line of questioning begun unanimously by the commission.
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Gerald Hurst, a Cambridge-educated chemist who was the chief scientist for the nation's largest explosives manufacturer, was the expert who authored a report sent to Perry shortly before Willingham's execution. His report found that the arson evidence used against Willingham was based on since-discredited junk science.

He said he is not surprised by the governor's actions, although "I didn't think he would go this drastic."

"Look at the situation: He appoints a commission and the first case they take up is an execution that was signed off on by the governor who had a chance to interrupt it," Hurst said.

He added that Perry apparently didn't want the public to hear from Beyler because he is an impeccable source.
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http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon.../stories/100109dntexperryarson.1cf2d2edb.html

#81 rimrocker, Oct 2, 2009

insane man Member

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WSJ's law blog has a posting on this too.

#82 insane man, Oct 2, 2009
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DonnyMost said:

If you execute one innocent man, the entire system is a failure and everyone who had a hand in allowing the death penalty to be used is a murderer.
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I know someone who says 1 innocent life is worth it if 100 guilty sick SOBs die too. Of course, it's easy to say when he isn't the innocent life. But he rationalizes it by saying innocent guys on death row aren't saints.

#83 Smokey, Oct 2, 2009
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If we go around killing everyone who is not a saint there are going to be precious few people left alive.

#84 MrRoboto, Oct 2, 2009
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I have the same stance as your 'someone'. But I don't mind sacrificing myself to have guilty die.

I'm as pro-death as they come. Three strikes and you're facing a firing squad. Prisons aren't about redemption; they are punishment and a deterrent.

#85 BigBenito, Oct 2, 2009
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Willingham's last words:

"Yeah. The only statement I want to make is that I am an innocent man - convicted of a crime I did not commit. I have been persecuted for 12 years for something I did not do. From God's dust I came and to dust I will return - so the earth shall become my throne. I gotta go, road dog. I love you Gabby." [Remaining portion of statement omitted due to profanity.]

#86 jopatmc, Oct 2, 2009
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MrRoboto said:

If we go around killing everyone who is not a saint there are going to be precious few people left alive.
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He isn't saying people on the outside are saints, but that people on death row have done some ****ed up **** to put themselves in that predicament.

He says good, honest average Joes (everyday people) don't end up on death row.

#87 Smokey, Oct 2, 2009

rimrocker Member

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MrRoboto said:

If we go around killing everyone who is not a saint there are going to be precious few people left alive.
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Yep, and half of them saints are dead already.

#88 rimrocker, Oct 2, 2009
REEKO_HTOWN I'm Rich Biiiiaaatch!

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This story gets worse and worse and the Governor keeps making our state look worse and worse.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/t9KQuDAKiz4&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/t9KQuDAKiz4&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

#89 REEKO_HTOWN, Oct 4, 2009

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rimrocker Member

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The worm is turning... I'll just point out to those in Texas and those (like me) who still love the place... this was done in your name.

Former Panel Chair Says Perry's Office Pressured Him On Death Penalty Probe

It's starting to look more and more like Texas governor Rick Perry orchestrated an effort to thwart a state probe into an arson investigation that may have led to the execution of an innocent man.

Sam Bassett -- the former chair of the Texas Forensic Science Commission, who Perry declined to reappoint last month -- is now saying that Perry's aides tried to pressure him over the direction of the inquiry his panel was conducting into the steps that led to the 2004 execution of Cameron Todd Willingham for arson. Perry, as governor, signed off on the execution, despite clear evidence that the investigation was flawed.

Bassett told the Chicago Tribune over the weekend that he twice was summoned to meetings with Perry's top attorneys, who said explicitly that they were unhappy with the how the panel's probe was being conducted. At one meeting, Perry's lawyers questioned how much it was costing, and asked why the panel had hired a nationally known arson expert -- rather than a Texas fire scientist -- to look into the case. Bassett added that after that meeting, a staffer from the Texas general counsel's office started attending commission meetings.

Said Bassett to the Tribune:

I was surprised that they were involving themselves in the commission's decision-making. I did feel some pressure from them, yes. There's no question about that.
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Nor is Perry's office being transparent about the issue. Over the weekend, it refused a request from the Houston Chronicle to release documents that would shed light on how -- or whether - it reviewed a report from Willigham's lawyer, sent hours before Willingham alerting the governor to serious flaws in the arson investigation. Perry's office argued to the paper that staff comments and analyses of the report aren't public records.

Since the controversy over Bassett's ouster erupted last month, Perry has pointed out that Bassett's tenure was expired, and that the governor merely declined to reappoint him. But an advisory lawyers group, as well as several members of the panel itself, had urged Perry to keep Bassett on. And the decision not to reappoint Bassett came just days before the panel was to hear testimony from Craig Beyler, a nationally known arson expert who argued in a report that methods used in the investigation could not support the finding of arson.

The new chair appointed by Perry to replace Bassett, conservative prosecutor John Bradley, called off Beyler's testimony, saying he and other new panel members needed more time to get up to speed on the case. Bradley has not said whether Beyler's appearance will be rescheduled.
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsme...says_perrys_office_pressured_hi.php?ref=fpblg
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#90 rimrocker, Oct 12, 2009
Nice Rollin Member

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rick perry is a piece of ****

#91 Nice Rollin, Oct 12, 2009
rimrocker Member

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More... he either did this to get rid of the fourth person or to make the previous actions look "normal."

Fourth member replaced on Texas panel probing execution

(CNN) -- Texas Gov. Rick Perry has removed a fourth member of a state commission charged with investigating claims that an innocent man may have been executed, his office said.

The Texas governor has now replaced all of the four members that, under law, he is allowed to appoint to the commission. The remaining five members are appointed by the state's lieutenant governor and attorney general.

Perry's critics say his actions are politically motivated, a charge he denies.

The investigation into claims that faulty evidence led Texas to execute an innocent man in 2004 was at a "crucial point" when the shakeup occurred, one of the replaced members said.

The commission was to hear from the author of a scathing report in the case of the executed man, Cameron Todd Willingham, when Perry announced on September 30 that he would replace three members.

The session was postponed indefinitely because of the new appointments, and Perry's critics accused him of trying to quash the Willingham probe.

"I think people are making a lot of this issue," Perry said earlier.

Commissioner Alan Levy was replaced by John Bradley, a district attorney who was also named commission chairman. Aliece Watts was replaced by Norma Farley, chief forensic pathologist for Hidalgo and Cameron counties. Perry said at the time the replacements were "pretty normal protocol."

In a statement Thursday, Perry's office said he had appointed attorney Lance Evans of Fort Worth to replace former commission chairman Samuel Bassett of Austin, and that Randall Frost of Boerne, chief medical examiner for Bexar County, would replace commissioner Sridhar Natarajan.

"If you've got a whole new investigation going forward, it makes a lot more sense to put the new people in now and let them start the full process, rather than bring people in there for a short period of time and then replace them," Perry said two weeks ago. "I think it makes a whole lot more sense to make a change now than to make a change later."

But the Forensic Science Commission began investigating the Willingham case in 2008, hiring Maryland fire investigation expert Craig Beyler to examine the evidence used to convince a jury the fire that killed Willingham's three daughters was deliberately set.

Levy said at the time of his replacement he had told Perry's office "that it would be disruptive to make the new appointments right now."

"The commission was at a crucial point in the investigation," he told CNN. Asked about the future of the Willingham investigation, he said, "I don't know if it will ever be heard."

Both Levy and Bassett said they had asked to remain on the board.

Evans declined to give an opinion on the Willingham controversy when contacted by the Fort Worth Star-Telegram for a story Friday, saying all he knows on the matter is what he's read in the newspaper.

"Because I haven't had involvement with the commission, I can't really comment on what's been going on in the commission in the past," he said. "I will work very hard to make sure the duties of the commission ... as given by the Texas Legislature are carried out."

Beyler's report -- the first commissioned by a state agency -- is the latest of three to conclude that arson was not the likely cause of the 1991 fire.

Death-penalty opponents say an impartial review of Willingham case could lead to an unprecedented admission -- that the state executed an innocent man. The Beyler report concluded that the ruling of arson at the heart of Willingham's conviction "could not be sustained" by modern science or the standards of the time.

Perry, who faces a Republican primary challenge in his bid for a third term next year, refused to issue a last-minute stay of execution for Willingham in 2004 and has said he remains confident that Willingham was guilty. So have authorities in Corsicana, south of Dallas, who prosecuted Willingham in his daughters' deaths.

Asked earlier whether the governor wants to see the Willingham investigation go forward, Perry spokeswoman Katherine Cesinger told CNN, "That's a decision of the commission."

However, the first replacements raised concern among Willingham's relatives, who worked to avert his execution and to clear his name after his death.

"It sounds like someone made Governor Perry mad," his stepmother, Eugena Willingham, said after hearing the news during an interview with CNN at her home in Ardmore, Oklahoma.

"I think it's going to delay things," she added. "It makes me wonder why."

Neither Bassett nor Levy would say whether they believed political considerations were behind their replacement, though Bassett said in a written statement that the investigation should not be dropped "because there might be political ramifications."

Bradley told CNN at the time of his appointment he did not believe it was meant to stall the Willingham probe.

"People tend to read into these things the kind of preconceived notions they come to these issues with," Bradley said. "They're not going to change those positions overnight. They're going to watch how the commission does its work." He said if he does his job right, the commission will "probably satisfy most of those people."
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/10/11/texas.execution.probe/
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#92 rimrocker, Oct 13, 2009
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Perry says Willingham was monster

AUSTIN — Gov. Rick Perry defended his actions today in the execution of Cameron Todd Willingham, calling Willingham a “monster” and a “bad man” who murdered his children.

Perry has been besieged by accusations that he has tried to block an investigation into the possibility that Willingham may have been a victim of bad forensic science that led to his conviction in the 1991 Corsicana arson deaths of his three children, and subsequently his 2004 execution.

Perry told reporters today he is convinced that Willingham was guilty of his crime.

“Willingham was a monster,” Perry said. “Here's a guy who murdered his three children, who tried to beat his wife into an abortion so he wouldn't have those kids. Person after person has stood up and testified to facts of this case that, quite frankly, you all are not covering.”

Perry said Willingham showed how bad he was on the day of his execution.

“This is a bad man. This is a guy who in the death chamber in his last breath spews an obscenity-laced (tirade) against his wife,” Perry said.

The controversy recently took on a new life when Perry replaced criminal defense lawyer Sam Bassett as chairman of the state Forensic Science Commission that was investigating whether Willingham may have been convicted based on bad science.

Bassett has said he felt pressured by Perry's staff to back off of the investigation earlier this year and was told that spending money on a scientific report was not worth the money.

“If somebody felt like they got pressured, that's his call, not ours. My folks don't feel that way at all,” Perry said.

Perry said he did not replace Bassett and others on the commission to halt the investigation. He said the term of office for people on the commission was up and he decided to replace them.

But the governor also attacked the report that Craig Beyler produced for the commission that was a scathing review of the original arson investigation. Perry said even Willingham's criminal defense lawyer does not believe that report.

“He (the defense lawyer) will tell you that this man was a monster. He has come to clearly believe in his guilt,” Perry said. “He said that study that Mr. Beyler came forward with is nothing more than propaganda by the anti-death penalty people across this country.”

Perry added that Willingham had adequate criminal justice review before his execution.

“How many courts looked at this? There were nine federal courts that looked at this case. Nine federal courts. It was before the Supreme Court of the United States four times. Now surely you're not saying the Supreme Court of the United States fouled up four times?” Perry said.

“We have a system in this state that has followed the procedures and they found this man guilty at every step of the way. You have one piece of study that everyone is glomming onto and saying, ‘Ah-ha!.'”
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#93 pgabriel, Oct 14, 2009

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Apparently he wants Kay to win.

#94 CrazyDave, Oct 14, 2009
SamFisher Member

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Governer Perry said:

You have one piece of study that everyone is glomming onto and saying, ‘Ah-ha!.'”
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That would be one more piece of valid admissible scientific evidence than was presented at the trial.

#95 SamFisher, Oct 14, 2009
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pgabriel said:

Perry says Willingham was monster
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He's mentioned to address every angle of it, except that he had dismissed Commission members to avoid a hearing on the arson forensics. If Perry is so certain about all of this, he should have left the Commission alone to work.

#96 JuanValdez, Oct 14, 2009
REEKO_HTOWN I'm Rich Biiiiaaatch!

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JuanValdez said:

He's mentioned to address every angle of it, except that he had dismissed Commission members to avoid a hearing on the arson forensics. If Perry is so certain about all of this, he should have left the Commission alone to work.
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and this will be Hucthison's hollow tips when the ads start airing.

#97 REEKO_HTOWN, Oct 14, 2009
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Rick Perry is a piece of human ****. If he died in a car wreck tomorrow, the world would genuinely be better off.

#98 thadeus, Oct 14, 2009

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Here's KBH's response

“As hard as Rick Perry’s office and his campaign may try to divert from the issue, this is not about one man or one case. The issue is Rick Perry’s heavy-handed politicization of a process and Commission established by the legislature to provide critical oversight. First, Rick Perry delayed the formation of the Texas Forensic Science Commission, then he tried to ensure it didn’t have funding and when all else failed, he fired everyone he could. The only thing Rick Perry’s actions have accomplished is giving liberals an argument to discredit the death penalty. Kay Bailey Hutchison is a steadfast supporter of the death penalty, voted to reinstate it when she served in the Texas House and believes we should never do anything to create a cloud of controversy over it with actions that look like a cover-up.”
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Of course the argument here is the fact that liberals will use this to abolish the death penalty

#99 br0ken_shad0w, Oct 15, 2009
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I just became a Kay Bailey Hutchison supporter, and I truly dislike Kay Bailey Hutchison.

pgabriel said:

Perry says Willingham was monster[rquoter]...“Willingham was a monster,” Perry said. “Here's a guy who murdered his three children, who tried to beat his wife into an abortion so he wouldn't have those kids...[/rquoter]
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Wikipedia: "Begging the question":

The fallacy of petitio principii, or "begging the question", is committed "when a proposition which requires proof is assumed without proof."[3] More specifically, petitio principii refers to arguing for a conclusion that has already been assumed in the premise.
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That he used to beat his wife is irrelevant; it does not mean that he murdered his children. In the article Fisher linked to, his wife stated that he never touched the children.

#100 aghast, Oct 15, 2009

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