Texas family sues over "under God" reference in pledge

Everything... even my Harvey Keitel coffee mug?

On a serious note, it's interesting that the story comes to us from Abilene. It's a smallish town and boasts one of the highest (perhaps the highest) church-to-person ratio. It's still a ratio less than one, but it's high! So, basically, I think this person is pretty brave or crazy to take this to the courts. If the family wants their kid to be left alone, I'd think there are appropriate channels for that within the school district.

 

If the family wants the kid to be left alone, they wouldn't be so public about it...especially in Abilene.

 

'Zactly. couldn't agree more. I like that town, by the way. I came this close to working at McMurry. Good BBQ there, and I like that region where the grass ends.

 

If the family wants their kid to be left alone, I'd think there are appropriate channels for that within the school district.

Of course, if they already had tried that, you wouldn't have heard about it. The original incident happened in February... so maybe that method didn't work, the school pissed them off, and this is a last-resort - we have no idea.

Or perhaps its a publicity stunt. Who knows.

 

One could argue that there already is an amendment on this issue.

1st Amendment
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

 

All this talk of which religion under God refers to reminds me of this

 

How are we indoctrinating children when it's not required that they do say it in the first place?

 

Do you not know anything about child psycology?

A child has an overwelming desire to fit in. A child has no real concept of what they are saying when they recite the pledge. Parents may try to explain to their 7 year old what they are saying and what it means, but a child can't understand what that really means and is not doesn't have the knowledge to choice between alternatives based on their morals or belief system. All a child usually knows is what their parents believe.

To be different, in that environment, would be a little bit stressing I would think.

Just a different angle on all of this.

 

So basically what you're saying is that parents enormously influence the beliefs of a child at a young age. That's not a debate for me as I accept that as truth. Since that's the case, it follows that saying the pledge for younger children is very much a parental decision, and if anything, would be indoctrination by the parents, not by the country by and large.

 

right, I was trying to consider the child's feelings in all of this..

 

It sickens me how religion and nationalism are more important than democracy and mutual respect in the USA.

 

Religion and spirituality are extremely personal, and intertwine into the very fabric that makes up who we are. Spirituality is an individual experience that can only be discovered by humble reflection and deep understanding. In many ways, faith defines us.

So why trust a complete stranger to teach your child about something so personal?

 

i don't know...he was pretty tough on the Pharisees...and he did talk more about hell than he did about heaven.

but i agree entirely with your last point...i think God seeks true responses of love...not rote responses compelled by authority.

 

The substitute teacher in Abilene should be drawn and quartered. If I had a child, and his or her teacher said something like this to my child if my child didn't want to recite the pledge, I wouldn't sue. I would go down to the school and break the teacher's neck, happily. What a disgusting individual this person is to say something like that to a child.

 

Off topic, but if I can list all the occupations I don't ever want to have, "substitute teacher in Abilene" is way up near the top.

 

Have you ever been to the USA? I don't like the way you draw conclusions about a whole country from some isolated incidents or events. You should have more respect, posting on a US bulletin board. We are guests here, remember.

 

I really enjoy reading the way you make this look like a certified teacher did this. Boy, do you have a way of blowing things way out of proportion. I really need to get some software to draw you a picture of what caused this.

As for me, I will continue to teach the characteristics of Puritan writing, I will continue to teach the beliefs that fueled the Puritans desire to persevere through the toughest times, and if you have a problem with that, tough. Unless you are a teacher teaching American Literature, you have no idea what the curriculum calls for. You are ignorant to think that teaching these things is, how did you say, "...insert(ing) their religious ideology into the classroom", but then again, you seem to be ignorant of many things that go on in a classroom. You are completely off base in your blanket accusation. Come back and talk about this after you've read through the Texas curriculum.

For we must consider that we shall be as a city upon a hill, the eyes of the people are upon us. So that if we shall deal falsely with our God in this work we have undertaken, and so cause Him to withdraw His present help from us, we shall be made a story and a byword through the world..."
--John Winthrop, from a sermon delivered aboard the Arbella on the voyage to New England, spring 1630.

This is a perfect passage to teach allusion to the Bible (Matthew 5:14)
BTW, John Winthrop and the Puritans believed they had a covenant with God to create a society governed by the scriptures in which everyone worked together for the common good.

Now, if you will excuse me, I have to go preach...err, I mean teach my class.

BTW, nice ad hominems...Homer...good one, and my Daddy can beat up your daddy.

 

Naw, but seriously. Amazingly serene landscapes (give or take fighter jets and sonic booms), excellent food (if you like beef, beef, and beef), and some of the lowest housing prices in the nation. Come on, Sam.

 

I Pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America
and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God,
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Any English majors out there? Is this sentence a run on or what?

The "one Nation under God" and "indivisible" clauses appear to be standing all by their lonesome.

 

Maybe the correct punctuation is :

I Pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America
and to the Republic for which it stands - one Nation under God,
indivisible - with liberty and justice for all.

Better English as one might find taught in schools might be:

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America
and to the Republic for which it stands, as one indivisible Nation
under God, with liberty and justice for all.

or

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America,
one indivisible Nation under God, and to the Republic for which it
stands, with liberty and justice for all.