This option is not them not participating. It is them participating with the only avenue available to them. If Dewherst simply allowed a blocker bill (the senate tradition requiring 2/3 vote before a floor debate), none of this would have happened. The Lt. Gov. decided to bend the traditions of the senate and now the Dems are using their only option. Actually, breaking quorum has been used as a political tool for a long, long time. It tends to be unpopular with the people in the majority at the time and is usually hailed as justified by the history books. The Chronicle did a story on quorum breaking after the Texas House members went to Ardmore. See Deckard's explanation of THIS redistricting (the one in 2001) at the top of page 2, that was very well put. DeLay is a member of the US House of Representatives and has been pushing for this redistricting, including using one of his lawyers to vet the efficacy of each map as well as being on contract to defend the redistricting in court. It is a well documented effort, not just an accusation.
Maybe we could talk offline (via email) about some of the disagreements you have on my issues pages. I welcome other opinions and would love to hear yours. andyjmoon@hotmail.com
Read my post at the top of page 2 for why I think this is the wrong fight at the wrong time. As for DeLay's name being thrown about... have you been reading any of the state's major newspapers during all of this? Every one of them editorialized against redistricting at this time, including the Dallas Morning News and the Houston Chronicle... not exactly liberal newspapers. They also called for Tom DeLay to stay out of the state legislature's business and to concentrate on the state's budget crisis instead. You can condemn the Senators acting as they did, that is your right, of course... but you and several of the rest of you need to examine what the state Republican Party leadership is doing to this great place we live in. What they have done to the elderly, the disabled, the children of those less fortunate than us... not to mention state employees. I could go on, and I've posted articles in the past about this, but you all seem more interested in this political drama. Why not show more interest in the real-life drama that is affecting tens of thousands of people across this state? Pick up a major paper or go on their web sites and look under Metro/State or similar sections... do a tiny bit of research and discover what is happening right now. You might be surprised. edit: I just read your post, andy, and now I feel embarrassed. Thanks.
I'm sorry, Everytime I see Rick Perry talking about this issue I think about that Tony Sanchez Campaign commercial with Rick Perry's group being pulled over. "Why don't you just let us get on down the road"
By the way, I read your other post, and if I'm not mistaken, it did not address any of my other questions about gerrymandering and the recent history of Texas state politics. Certainly you are not implying that the Chronicle is not a liberally slanted paper? Look, I am surprisingly aware that Delay is the majority leader in the U.S. House, and I have read his name in countless accusatory diatribes in the Chronicle, the Washington Post, etc. However, I am asking for more concrete information than the consistent barrage of name-calling that seems to perpetually exist. Excellent liberal strategy, by the way, to bring up the poor, innocent children and helpless, sweltering elderly when dealing with any completely unrelated issue. It is so valiant to prop up the downtrodden with blanket generalizations intended to instill guilt in the minds of those more fortunate. I, for one, have a tremendous problem with any party who intentionally, blatantly and selfishly acts with direct disregard for the constitution and the duties deriving from it. Not to mention how I feel if that same party attempts to play victimizing games and spew BS about how it is somehow defending the defenseless in the process. If that makes me immune to the needs of the rest of the grief-stricken world in your eyes, then so be it. You're greatly mistaken.
I don't think anyone here in Houston no matter what their political affiliation is will argue that the Chronicle isn't Conservative leaning. I don't want to derail this thread but I think that is a fairly accepted reality here.
Golly... I guess that means you don't want to do any research. I would attempt to respond, but you've really haven't given me anything worth responding to. I would call your ignorance appalling, but that would be insulting... so I won't. I'm really at a stand. You win.
If you are willing to disbelieve the information published in several different newspapers (and not denied by DeLay or his office) as well as many different news outlets like CNN and MSNBC because you think that they are biased, then you are wearing blinders that could block out the sun. The problem you mention in the last paragraph there is exactly the same problem I have with the Republicans on this issue. They claim that they are just trying to "see that the voters in Texas are represented" when in reality they are executing a partisan gerrymander in a blatant power play despite the fact that everywhere they polled on this issue, even Republicans didn't support it.
Your post on pg. 2: My question that you refuse to address: Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't the Democrats been largely in control in Texas politics for years until recently? Wouldn't it come to reason that as a result of that, the districts as they are currently drawn up are, therefore, advantageous to the Democrats, who drew up the maps? And if it's the case that the majority of Texas is now Republican, as most public offices seem to indiciate, that any redistricting that is approved will likely result in more Republican seats, so that the Democrats would be upset no matter what? I thought that's what gerrymandering was all about. Why didn't the Republicans flee to Colorado in years past when the Democrats added seats through redistricting? I guess my astonishing ignorance is blinding me. Where exactly does any of your post address any of my questions? I was not claiming to know all the answers, so get down off your self-built pedestal. I am interested to hear what someone wiser than I am (not including someone who attempts to pass off the Chronicle as a non-liberal paper) has to say about my legitimate questions.
Shockingly, I am willing to lump the Chronicle, CNN, MSNBC, the Washington Post, etc., all into the same basket. And I am not sure what you are so defensive about - I simply asked for facts from you that indicate that Delay is the devil. "Because Tom Delay told him so" does not answer it. The Democrats did the same damn thing for years while they were in power, and the Republicans, as far as I am aware, did not go to Vail. As far as the reasonable eye can tell, this is a typical (sadly) attempt to rationalize the sore-loser's unconstitutional and reprehensible behavior by blaming it all on some tyrannical conservative like Delay/Bush/Cheney/Ashcroft (fill in the conservative).
Yes. Yes. Probably. Because the Dems at those times worked WITH the minority party to come up with maps that were acceptable to both parties. In addition, the Dems never tried to redistrict outside the normal time frame for it.
Perry had every opportunity to push through redistricting during the session after the census. He had every major branch of state government except the House. He could have called a special session after the regular session to get what might have been a better result for the Republican Party. PERRY choose to have the courts draw the maps. Six (6!) of the districts had Republican majorities and the people who lived in those districts decided they liked their Democratic representation. I'm not sure how you want me to respond to the part you highlighted. Do you expect a desertation on Texas political history? Go to the library or Barnes & Noble and pick up some books. Apparently, it might also shock you that most Texas Democrats in the Legislature and in Congress, throughout post-Civil War history, were very conservative. They still are. The members who won in Republican districts were conservative Democrats. The people in those districts liked them more than the Republicans who ran against them. Pretty simple, really.
I think this is the third time in this thread that I have stated that I AM NOT A DEMOCRAT! The Reps didn't break quorum because the Dems at the time worked with them to get agreements that were acceptable to both parties. As far as DeLay goes, his lawyer (Taylor) has been vetting the maps being produced in these sessions and he is also under contract to defend the redistricting in court. Add to that the fact that DeLay's office has never denied being involved, despite being named in every publication in Texas as well as the Washington Post, the New York Times (OK, bad example there), CNN, MSNBC, ABC News, CBS News, and ABC News and it is pretty easy to see that DeLay has orchestrated this whole thing. You can remain blind despite the evidence, but you are being actively ignorant in order to do so.
I must be reading the wrong books because it has been my understanding that Gov. Perry delegated the map-drawing to the courts because the Democratic house refused to compromise in 2001, making it impossible for the legislature to push through a new redistricting map. When looked at from a slightly more objective eye, it seems like the Democrats, after 130+ years in control of the state government, desperately refused to compromise in 2001, leaving the issue to the courts. Then, 2 years later, they're trying to point fingers at the Republicans, who are now even more in control than they were in 2001. Where am I going wrong here...please be as sardonic and condescending as possible. Was there any other pending legislation that fell through the cracks when the Democrats initially fled to Oklahoma? If it serves my memory correctly, there were several large health care and education packages that were pushed aside in the name of "Democracy".
I never said that you were a Democrat. I realize that it makes some people feel powerful to call others ignorant on a message board, but it's really not accomplishing much. I'm not understanding why Delay's attempts to gather more seats for his party in his state are any different than the Democrats who did the same in years gone by. It seems like the failure to compromise is on the part of the Democrats, not the Republicans.
I skimmed through this thread so this may have been asked, but why are the Senators staying at a hotel in NM? Would the Senators be arrested in Texas for not going to the Capitol?
There is a question about that now since the courts have weighed in and said it was not right for the DPS to be used to track down or attempt to return the missing Senators last time around. But since the question is probably still an open one as to how far the Republicans can go to force the missing senators to the Capital, it's better to just hang out in another state just to be safe. Personally, I think there's been enough of all this. They had one special session where folks didn't bolt, and they couldn't get anything passed or even agreed to amongst themselves. There's really no point in calling another special session. They should be using this time and effort to tear down those Democrats from Republican districts and see that they don't get elected again.
Difference is that a Democrat in the US House of Representatives has NEVER pushed a redistricting effort, much less an effort to redistrict outside of the normal timeframe. Nobody has ever tried to redistrict outside the normal timeframe, you know, the one outlined by the Texas constitution. Only the Republicans and only because they know their power will be fleeting unless something is done to shore it up. The Dems who did redistricting in the past were state representatives and senators who did it without the influence from people in the US House and Senate. The US House and Senate should have no say in what goes on in the statehouse. It is not illegal, but I believe it to be improper.
It was BOTH sides that refused to cooperate to create a map, not one or the other. The courts drew the new districts, as requested by Perry, and now that the Reps have power, they are going to try to grab more. I don't have a problem with this process being gerrymandering, that is what redistricting is in our system. They should not, however, be wasting millions of dollars on this effort OUTSIDE THE NORMAL TIME FRAME. The healthcare and education packages were pushed aside because the Republicans didn't want to pay for them, and it happened before the Ardmore mess.
