From the very next paragraph in the same link: Sly Morris, I don't know where he is. I really don't know. I'm not sure he really wants to be here. I hope he does, but he's been hurt. We put him on IR (injured reserve) and I haven't seen him all year other than in his physical rehab. He's worked hard doing that and has come to all the meetings and never been late, so his head's in the game. But I just don't know yet. The off-season will define it. You were saying?
Yes they do love it here. Did he settle for first year money? No. He got a very healthy contract offer, far more than he would have gotten in the CFL (after Bruce McNall went to jail anyway). Hmmm… I thought you said it wasn’t about the money? His disappointment was being shafted by Buffalo. Notice that he said. “most disappointing thing about my NFL career," not his CFL career? Come on Ric. The term “exile” was the reporter’s term, not Cousineau’s. He stayed 4 years. He didn’t need to stay 4 minutes. All he had to do was accept Buffalo’s offer. He stayed because he was happy here. Why did he leave? He got a contract offer he couldn’t refuse, as I recall. Now you’re talking about “top” players, so you’re changing it again. Here’s news for you. The NFL tends to draft players that fit the NFL game, not the CFL game. If there were a lot of guys who came here instead after being drafted high, your scouts should all be fired. What you said, before all your revisions, was that only one drafted player has ever come to Canada first, and that simply isn’t true. What’s your point? He came to the CFL. He developed into a very good QB, and the NFL still didn’t give him a shot. Do you think player don’t learn anything in the CFL? Warren Moon feels the CFL is the best place for QBs to develop: Moon now paces the NFL sidelines as a colour commentator. The success he sees in former CFL quarterbacks-turned-NFL pros like Dave Dickenson and Jeff Garcia isn't lost on him. There's no better training ground, he said, than the CFL. “You're able to do a lot of different things, you can use the field as far as your roll-out ability, you can drop back and throw the football -- play action," Moon said. "It makes you a very valuable quarterback because of your versatility. When I went the States, no matter what offence they put me in, I adjusted to it." http://cbc.ca/pcgi-bin/templates/sportsView.cgi?/news/2001/09/21/Sports/moon010921 Sure. This is all part of the NFL’s wakeup call. It’s not as high and mighty as it likes to think it is. As I said, I’m a football fan and I watch all kinds. (I can’t really get into Arena Football though.) VERMEIL: "We're very, very pleased with the emergence of Boerigter and Dante Hall. We've got to provide Dante with more of an opportunity and Boerigter will be very competitive to be a starting wide receiver next year. Very competitive and it will probably be a flip of a coin. Dante Hall will be given more of an opportunity to make a contribution in the passing game. http://www.kcchiefs.com/news_article.asp?ID=ZC24DZ26Y2I7RB6IAC2PARX84W see also: http://www.stjoenews-press.com/Main.asp?SectionID=81&SubSectionID=274&ArticleID=35686 http://www.sportingnews.com/voices/vinnie_iyer/20021230.html Yes. This is far from a statement that he will be an all-star next year. Incidentally, they’ve officially announced the signing. Apparently he got a 3 year deal with a nice signing bonus. Do 6th round picks usually get 3 year deals with signing bonuses? I honestly don’t know the answer to this question, but I’m pretty sure that they don’t. You know Hugh Campbell’s name. I’ll give you that. Why is it you seem to know so little else about the league? Um… it’s what where talking about. You contend that the NFL is all about winning. I point out that the NFL has all kinds of prejudices that aren’t about winning at all. Nice how you avoided addressing the issues of black coaches. Do you think that maybe I could dig up a recent article or two on that issue? I could find a boatload. The prejudice against the CFL players is all part of the same old boys network mentality. Norms for what? Sankey was and is a backup in the CFL. If you’re saying it’s normal for a CFL backup not to make a NFL team, then I agree with you. Dickenson would do well if he got a chance. But my bet is that he would get injured pretty easily in the NFL. He’s not a very sturdy guy and NFL QBs take more big hits than CFL QBs. He wasn’t the best choice to go, but he wanted to give it a shot, so more power to him. A guy who might go this year is Anthony Cavillo. He would do well, but I think he’s going to get a nice offer from Montreal, perhaps close to $300,000US. His wife is from Montreal, I believe, and he’s a star there and is settled there. He very likely has some business things going on on the side too. My bet is that he is another guy who will choose to stay. The name Canadian Football League has been around since the late 50s but game goes back much further than that. The Grey Cup has been awarded to our championship winning football team since 1909. The earliest form of the game goes back to a game played in 1874 between a McGill University team and a British Army garrison stationed in Montreal. Thanks for asking. How long has the NFL been around again? Over the years there have been dozens and dozens of players who have gone south. In the 50s and 60s the CFL paid more than the American leagues so the top players and coaches came here. Joe Kapp, Glenn Dobs, Frank Tripuka, Bud Grant… Have there been many players who’ve done as much as Garcia? Ah, no, but what percentage of your players has made three straight Pro-Bowls? In recent years players who’ve made the Pro-Bowl include Garcia, Flutie, Moon, Horn. There have been many in the past but I’m not going to try hunt down all their names for you. Good. Now we’re getting somewhere. Talent for what? Vick may be a great football player and a great athlete, but he’d be a lousy jockey. Different kind of talent. The CFL and the NFL are different games, so some significantly different talents are required for each league. You just admitted it. And there you are using that equal word again. Is an apple equal to an orange? We’re going around in circles. Surely you’re not suggesting that John Avery isn’t a talented athlete? He was even a first round NFL pick. BUT, he’s doesn’t have the right kind of game for the NFL. He won the rushing title in the CFL though, beating Laurence Phillips. In the CFL he’s a more talented player IMO than Phillips. In the NFL I’m sure it would be the other way around. It isn’t contracting. The league expanded by one last year and there is talk about expanding to Halifax and Quebec City. Interest is at its highest point in many years. Television ratings are at their highest ever. I don’t know why it’s not on ESPN anymore but I’d guess that it’s because there aren’t any American teams anymore. Other networks are broadcasting it though, including America One, Fox Sports World, Sunshine and YES Networks We’ll see how it works out him. You can be sure I’ll be following the Texans more next year too.
It was rezdawg who posted that, and no I don’t think that what he really meant. I just took advantage of the ambiguous wording to make a point.
Since Grizzled doesn't seem to want to...could anyone post a list of the differences between the NFL game and the CFL game?
Gimme break would ya RL? I have life away from the computer you know. No, it’s not the only difference, but it is a big one. The NFL field is 53 yard wide and you field 11 men on each side of the ball. The CFL field is 65 yards wide and we field 12 player per side. That 12th player has to cover 12 extra yards in the CFL. If you consider the 2 dimensional area that's being covered, the difference is even more significant. The players are considerably more spread out in the CFL and there are more potential holes. This puts the emphasis on quickness, lateral quickness and speed. Bigger slower players have real problems. Another big difference is the 3 down ball. This means you have to go down field a lot more. You have to get positive yardage on every play. For QBs this means that you need to find you 2nd, 3rd, and often 4th options on plays, and you often have to roll out and scramble to buy time to do it. You can’t waste a ball, nearly as often. Dropped passes really hurt. You need excellent hands to play receiver here. (Ironically receivers don’t need outstanding speed. They need good speed, but it they run great patterns, if they can find the holes, if they come back to the QB when he’s scrambling and make smart plays, they can do very well. We have many receivers like that.) Garcia plays the way he does because that’s how he learned how to play in the CFL. Same with Flutie. And then there is the extra receiver and DB for the QBs to contend with. In a typical line-up you will have 2 WR and 2 slot backs (SB). (No TEs, they are just too slow and the size isn’t needed for blocking because the defenders are smaller quicker type players.) This gives the QB another option and another problem. This can be a big adjustment for college QBs and exNFLers who come up. In 1980 we had an owner who wanted to spend a bundle to bring up “star players.” Vince Ferigamo had thrown 30 TD passes the year before and taken the Rams to the Super Bowl. He had a contract dispute with the Rams, came to the CFL for big money, and promptly threw 25 interception in 13 games. He just couldn’t figure out the defences. More than a few highly touted QBs have come up here and proceeded to throw large numbers of interceptions. You need to be very smart and quick thinking to be a good CFL QB. And then there is the running game. Lots of screens and runs around the end with water bug backs like Avery. If the D-line spreads out, then you run plays through the holes. Barry Sanders would have done EXTREMELY well in the CFL. Bigger plodding backs wouldn’t do well. 3 yards up the middle on first down is not good enough. You really need 4 or 5 or 6 for it to be a good running play. You have to get 10 in 2 plays remember, unless you gamble on 3rd down. Line play is different because the D-line has to line up 1 yard off the ball. I know that in the NFL the D-line often backs off, but in the CFL they all line up 1 yard off the ball on every play And did I mention the unlimited motion in the offensive backfield? The receivers and back can do what ever they want, stunt, take a running start at the line, whatever they want, and the defence has to pay attention and adapt. So all this scrambling and the wider field puts big pressure on the defence. Linemen and LBs have to be able to move and be very quick. So they tend to be smaller and quicker. We have a couple of DT who would push 300 lbs, but that’s really too heavy. (The Riders are always on our 300 pounder, Nate Davis, to lose weight.) DEs are often 230 or 240. The best one in the league is 225. Some MLBs run 240 but others are 220. The SAM and WILL spots are often converted bigger DBs and can be as small as 200. (These positions don’t transfer well to the NFL. Most of these guys would be tweeners for you and don’t make it in the NFL). Another factor comes into play here as well. We have a 20 second play clock as opposed to the 40 second clock in the NFL. There isn’t as much time between plays and guys carrying extra weight get very tired very quickly. With all the scrambling the plays also last longer and the players do a lot more running too. Typically if a lineman gets cut from a NFL tryout and comes back to the CFL it takes several weeks to get into “CFL shape” and the player needs to be subbed for frequently, which is a problem because we only have 40 man rosters so there aren’t a lot of extra player around (remember that there is 12 on at a time too.) Many players have to play special teams as will as start on O or D. We also have stop timing in the last 3 minutes of a game. The clock stops on all first downs too, so the last 3 min can have a many more plays in it, if you run a hurry-up offence. What Garcia did to the Giants is what happens at the end of every close CFL game. So all this adds up the reality that the bigger bulkier players just can’t cut it up here, and quickness and smarts are extremely valuable here. Mentally slower players just can’t cut it. There is just too much going on to quickly. It’s a much faster game overall actually. It’s hard for me to watch the NFL during the CFL season because it seems so slow with long pauses between plays filled with endless streams of sappy drivel from the commentators. Blech! I love football though, so I watch anyway. I just turn down the volume and find something else to do while I’m watching so I don’t drive myself nuts waiting for something to happen. Anyway, I hope that clarifies things a bit. I could easily write more but I’ll spare you. Y’all should catch a game if you can. It’s an exciting brand of football.
I've tried watching the games, Grizzled...and honestly it didn't seem any more complicated or faster paced. I don't avidly watch the NFL either, though, so maybe I am just not catching the intricacies...but it certainly didn't hold my attention like the NFL can.
As a casual fan then I’d ask you, what do you find exciting about the NFL? Is it the football or the endless gushing the commentators do between plays? Even here many people say they like the NFL style commenting better, but I just find it corny and annoying.
I like the NFL because the college stars that I follow, graduate to the next level, the NFL. Therefore, I get to watch the players I followed in college compete against the best players in the world.
I like to follow local players too, which is probably why I like to follow exCFLers in the NFL. You get to know them a bit and then get interested in their careers. Incidentally, there are a couple of players from the Houston area on the Riders, LaDouphyous McCalla and Terrence Melton from Rice.
Rosters are set for the opening game and I thought it was time to resurrect this thread. Both Armstrong and Boerigter start the season at #2 on their respective depth charts. We had this discussion before AJ was drafted so for obvious reasons I’ll have to change my prediction that Armstrong will be starting by mid-season, but I think he’ll get some playing time and I think he’ll catch some big balls for the Texans. I predict that he’ll impress and continue to improve and impress. Boerigter will make a significant contribution in KC this year. I think his numbers will be right up there with Kennison and Morton. And if you’re interested in the next impact CFL WR to move to the NFL there are a few candidates this year. The best one for the NFL game IMO (although he may go in 2 years not next year) is a player who is close to a Boerigter clone, 6’2” 220 lbs. Matt Dominguez. He’s from Sam Houston so some of you may know of him already. He had a great career there but had a poor senior year and ran a 4.7 40 at the combine and didn’t get drafted. Denver signed him and tried to turn him into a TE, until he blew out a knee(?). He was released, dropped weight, worked on his speed, showed up at a free agent camp the Roughriders hold in Texas every year, ran a 4.5 40 and was signed to a contract. He’s having a good year but he has all the signs of being a great one. I think he needs another year to mature as a pro player and become more consistent and a little smarter about how he plays, but that’s a typical maturation process for CFL WRs. After that I think he bids adieu to the CFL and becomes the next Boerigter in the NFL.
Grizzled, don't even bother with Ric. He has a hard time thinking outside the box and attacks anyone who thinks differently. You could come up with a flawless argument and he'll call you a moron for thinking it. You'll gain nothing by going at it wth him. I've seen the same thing over and over again.
Just came across this thread...thought "what's Grizz posting about in the Astro's forum?"..and low and behold ---- more info on the old CFL than i could imagine... Go Lions...sorry about the Stamp's.
?? i've never called anyone a moron and if you look back over the thread, my beef was with grizzled's assertion that a) armstrong would be a starter by mid-season; b) the CFL was equal to the NFL. are those two points you'd like to argue? we never discussed the merits of him making the team, and i never, not once, wished that he wouldn't, so why cast me in a bad light? i'm happy if the texans found a gem and grizzled obviously took great pride in the accomplishment without being an ass, so i have no beef with him, either. and i hope that armstrong continues to have success. never wanted it any other way. at the end of every day, i'm a texan fan, and their success is paramount to being right in some message forum.
Yeah, you’re right. As you can see I was a little slow to figure that out, but you’re right. I may have been wasting my breath. Bnb: I’m a Rider fan. I’m a transplant in Calgary, along with half of the city. Congrats on the rebirth of you team! We’re playing each other this weekend and Dickenson has me worried. Looks like Henry Burris might get the start for us as Nealon is nursing a quad pull. As far as Calgary goes, they just took a huge step forward today, they canned Fred Fateri.
Once a Rider fan...always a Rider fan...I know how it is. (Even us non- Roughies have a little Green Rider love) Don't mean to prolong this thread, just thought I'd chip some acknowledgement for you cfl knowledge. I actually learned a lot about the NFL from your posts.
Thanks bnb. Your Lions are having a heck of a year in 04. I’d say they have to be the favourites to be there with the Als in the Grey Cup. Football has certainly become popular in VanCity again, and it’s good to see. Is Ric around anymore, btw? Not that I'm one to say I told you so, but I just though I’d bump this thread for the heck of it. Derick seems to be coming on more or less as I thought he would. I think the drafting of AJ pushed his game time and production back a bit but that was probably not the worst thing to happen. Armstrong is a slowish but steady learner. That’s how he was with us and it seems to be how it’s working out with the Texans. He just slowly and steadily learns the thing he needs to know to get better and better and better. He’s always been a great athlete, but it’s his knowledge of the game and his level of play that has been on a steady, never ending, climb for at least 4 years now, and it doesn’t seem to have plateaued. Good for him. I think he comes from not very well off family, so this kind of success for him and his family is great to see. From what I know of him I think he’ll be very appreciative and just keep working hard to keep getting better and being the best he can be for himself and his family.
