Peyton Manning sure is a hell of a running qb. Kurt Warner sure did move like the wind. Heck, even Tom Brady and Ben Rothlesburger can put Mike Vick to shame. In other words, your argument is freaking r****ded.
What if they don't crash and burn, though. I'm no VY supporter....or hater, I thought what he did in the Rose Bowl was awesome, but who cares about him now? He plays for a different team. But, sometimes people are just "lucky." I got to play basketball weekly and there are always a lot of the same guys there. There's a lot of good players, and a lot of bad players. And there are a select few who look like they should suck, play like they should suck, but things just go their way...consistently. You'll be sitting waiting for your game to come up, think, "Oh, there's Jimmy again, he's such a fluke", but somehow he'll win his game, and continue to play like "crap" yet find a way to put in 8 points on you the next game. Random analogy, but it seems stupid to bank on the Titans sucking next year. They could have another year where it all seems fluky, but they still win. Again, though, who cares? Can't we just all be happy that David Carr is no longer our quarterback and get excited about watching something new?
David Carr? who cares about him he is not here? Elway was a pocket passer who had the ability to run and failed early in his career when he used his legs more. Young changed his game just like Vince will have to, the only difference is Young had a strong arm as well. Marino/Moon and others did not get it done for one reason or another but I will say I'll take Matt's arm over VY legs just MHO!
Dude whatever! His teams were outclassed when he lost. It wasnt because of his scrambling/running abilities. Those were his strengths. The ability to make plays and not get sacked. remember 4th and a billion yards against Denver??? We're the Houston.. Oil...
quote me when I said that. I believe I was talking about heroes. but if we're playing lets make up crap that other people didnt say. I'll gladly take the challenge. Why did you think Bonzi was better than Battier?
Probably picking nits, but I have a hard time referring to professional athletes as "heroes" or their feats as "heroic". I get that they do what most of us cannot do in terms of their sport, and that in high-pressure, high-profile situations, but nothing was "saved" but bragging rights, ultimately. Or a piece of hardware. Not criticizing your take tinman, just my own random rant of the day.
You were talking about running quarterbacks. You made it sound as if Elway nd Young were runners (and won Super Bowls) and Marino was a thrower (and never won). Elway and Young both had incerdible arms. VY does not have an Elway or Young type of arm. Not even close. You change what you say so much, even you can't keep up.
I understand your point, but people in general since the beginning of time have been looking for heroes. Look at the greeks, hercules.. that dude who cut off medusa's head etc. Why do you think Reggie Bush was considered the "SAVIOR" before he even played a down for the Saints? People are looking for heroes. they may not have saved lives or stop giant monsters from the ocean, but they give someone to cheer for. Hope. Glory.
the Rockets and the excitement and anticipation of the NBA playoffs are occupying parts of my brain. I meant to say they were HEROES. and HEROES like Cassell and Horry may not have 'prototype' characteristics for their position, but it about the winning and momments that define you. That's what I meant. Elway and Young made momments and plays with their feet, eyes, arm, fingers etc. They did whatever it took. That's what VY brings. He'll do whatever it takes. He knows he has haters and doubters and it fuels him. Its the fire level which makes champions! If VY doesnt win the MVP, he can take the lesson he learned from the Rockets. When Dream didn't win the MVP and they gave the trophy to Robinson... you know
So, you're including Gary Kubiak, Rick Smith, Andre Johnsons, and Matt Schaub in the Dick Justice world of Knowledgeless, Lazy Hacks Who Need a Crutch? Because, they've all been quoted very recently discussing leadership. I'll meet in the middle and agree with you that leadership is often overblown, especially by the lazy hacks of the world (Dick Justice, et. al.) and by passionate fans who discuss more off their sleeve or the chip on their shoulder than true knowledge of the game. In fact, I may fit into that latter category from time to time. But, leadership is most certainly a real factor and it most certainly does exist. The problem is, leadership doesn't materialize if one doesn't have the talent to give it place. And the talent is the most important factor. John Elway was a great leader of his football teams. It'd be insane, in light of what we watched in what his teammates and coaches have said over the years, to arrive at any other conclusion. But, the only reason we know anything about Elway as a leader is because he was first and foremost an amazingly talented QB. I believe it is possible that very talented atheletes can lack leadership skills. TO and Bonzi Wells come to mind. Every super-athlete doesn't have to be an "on-the-field leader" for the team to succeed, but someone has to lead. That, or every interview I've heard from great teams where guys discuss the "leader in the clubhouse" or the "veteran leadership in the huddle" were knowledgeless hacks (Hall-of-Famers and champions notwithstanding) who were leaning on a crutch due to their lack of knowledge of their own sport. _____________________________________________ One more delving into this topic: it's been a source of irritation here because of the following argument: "David Carr sucks because he's not a leader." The proper response to that, IMO, is not "Leadership doesn't exist." Because, it does. But that argument is flawed nonetheless, and I understand the irritation it causes. The following are mutually exclusive possibilities that make "David Carr sucks because he isn't a leader" an illogical conclusion in and of itself. 1) How do we know "David Carr is not a leader"? Who has made such a statement? His performance, or lack thereof, can be judged by far too many varying factors to arrive dogmatically at "he's not a leader". 2) If David Carr can't read defenses, then it doesn't matter if he's a "leader" or not. If he can't deliver from a talent standpoint on this level, then we'll never know whether he's a "leader", due to his talent shortcomings. 3) (Most won't agree with this one! (and I don't either)) You can lead a horse to water, but you can't lead horse$#*&*! to water! David never had anything to lead--a sorry offensive line, a bad running game, a poorly prepared offensive scheme that changed way too often, and one good receiver. Oh, and no tight end. In short, just because folks argue about leadership incorrectly or illogically doesn't mean that it doesn't exist or doesn't play an important role in the outcome of games.
so what do Robert Horry, David Carr, and Vince Young have to do with a thread titled "Texans schedule out"? or bonzi wells and battier for that matter.
FYI....from a chat today with Football Scientist KC Joyner on ESPN Chris (NY): KC, i know its early, very early, but who do you have as a sleeper team this year? and dont worry i wont save your answer and throw it in your face in December KC Joyner: (4:47 PM ET ) Sleeper team this year for me would be Houston. I like the Schaub signing and think they have a ton of really good young players on that team. They may not make the playoffs because the AFC quite competitive but I could see a 9-7 year out of the Texans in 2007.
Conversations wander naturally. I don't agree with tinman much, but I could follow where he was coming from.
But every conversation that he is in miraculously seems to naturally wander to exact same places every time.
