I have never, not once, ever ever ever argued that we should stay put and draft an OL. I guessed you missed my earlier quote today in this very thread:
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You're right, Bush does have the speed and moves, but he also has the luxury of having time to make those moves and use his speed (on passes) to get him free. If you watch USC a lot, their OL gives Leinart a TON of time in the pocket, therefore, allowing his receivers (White and Bush) to do damage in the open field. However, if you go from that, straight to a NFL team that gives their quarterback an average of 2 seconds in the pocket, it's gonna translate into nothing. Everything starts with the OL, they protect the QB for passes and they block on runs. If you have a crap OL like we do, you don't give the QB or WR enough time to do their thing, you don't get holes for the RB. AJ is one of the best WRs in the game (my favorite personally) but there is a reason why he has been so unproductive this season. Please don't get me wrong, Bush is an unbelievable talent, but a running back isn't our biggest need. An O-Line is, and there is a tackle out there by the name of D'Brickshaw Ferguson who is worth a top 3 pick.
thanks. i have no life. the OL is a problem; don't get me wrong. but it can't be treated as the only problem. no, but you've argued getting the best player in the draft can't help far and away the worst team in football: "We need talented players who can do their jobs. I know we're nowhere close to it right now, but the goal should be to build a Super Bowl contending team, not a team with players who can put up great stats, yet barely ever make it to the playoffs." i do not understand how that goal would or should automatically rule out reggie bush and players of his ilk. your response to that has been, universally, because we need to upgrade the OL. you've made it the be-all, end-all proposition that should be done at all costs, and that, IMO, is a hazardous approach. my contention is that, in doing so, you may be passing on someone who could have an even bigger impact on the franchise. that getting the 10th best player in the draft and an additional second rounder isn't such an upgrade over the best player that you automatically rule out getting the best player.
I'm enjoying the arguments on both sides of this debate. Although I'm no football talent expert, from the sounds of it, Bush, Leinart, & D'Brickashaw are all outstanding talents, worthy of a Top 3 pick. They all seem to be head & shoulders above their peers at their respective positions. Declaring one of these guys to be clearly superior to another seems like splitting hairs, which pro scouts may be able to do. But otherwise, I think beauty is in the eye of the beholder. In other words, need is relevant if you have guys with similar grades. We have a former #1 pick who has yet to be able to showcase his NFL capabilities clearly at QB, an average to above-average RB who just signed a long-term deal with a capable backup, and then we have the flavor of the week at LT (whether it be Pitts or Wand or Riley, no one seems to have any long-term promise there). If all 3 are considered sure bets at their positions, well then, I'm going for the guy that fills our biggest need. If we can get some extra high-round picks and still nab the top OL, then all the better because we only have about 18 starting positions up for grabs next year.
The one pick could be converted into extra picks. No one is asking them to lie down and dog it. I say to lose going forward and being competitive would be a good thing in the overall picture. I say let's just jinx them. Losing culture? Half the guys won't be around two years from now....
The Oilers had the dubious distinction of being the second best team in pro football and the second best team in their own division during those years didn't they?
I'm not sure what's so hard about understanding that our OL is far and away the worst in the NFL. Far. and. Away. Taking a potential gamebreaker who plays the same position that is already occupied by someone who can get the job done (almost 1200 yards rushing in 15 games in 2003) when you have the chance to draft the best OL and obtain more picks to help other areas is unwise, IMO, since it is inconceivable that the player will be a gamebreaker in the forseeable future. If we had an average OL and didn't have an RB who's capable of 1200 yard rushing, 500 yard receiving seasons, I'd be all over taking Bush. But it's not like that. And yes, DD could rush for 1500 yards if he was behind a good OL. Reggie Bush on USC is a gamebreaker. I wholeheartedly disagree that he would be a gamebreaker on this Texans team or on it's equivalent in the NCAA. With that, I'm out. I'm not going to convince you that I'm right, nor will you convince me that I'm right. We're approaching the whole go around in circles routine.
Here's a question that was brought up last night while watching the Rockets: Does anyone think Bush would try to pull an Elway and refuse to play for the Texans?
What makes you think he would do that? We're only 3 defensive players, a WR and offensive line away from being a .500 football team.
Because we're only 3 defensive players, a WR and offensive line away from being a .500 football team.
RM95 – fair enough; here’s my final $.02. i agree it’s the worst OL in football; maybe – maybe – one of the two or three worst OL ever put together when it comes to pass blocking. it’s an abomination. but i’d say the same thing about the team’s pass rush, and that’s my point… the texans need help at every single position. I think iof you go into a draft thinking, “OL… OL… OL…” you end up reaching for guys or passing on others who could have a bigger impact on your team, and they can’t afford to do that. it really comes down to you obviously being a bigger fan of DD’s than i am. i think he’s a marginal player. I like him – runs hard, tough. but he lacks vision, lacks quickness, lacks speed and he isn’t a threat to break a game open. he’s also, by the way, quite possibly the worst running back in the nfl at picking up the blitz. if I had a chance to upgrade his position with the heads and tails best player in the draft, i’d do it in a heartbeat. same with every single position, save for QB, but only because it would be cost-prohibitive. if DD can rush for 1100 yards behind this line… then reggie bush would rush for 1500-1600, score more touchdowns, and break more games open, put defenses on their heels. i’ve seen DD get caught from behind in the open field. bush wouldn’t. that’s the difference and it’s a big one on a team that has trouble moving the football. certainly possible, but why would he? he could cost himself a shot at going #1 overall, and that means a huge chunk of change. if he cries and whines about being drafted by houston, the texans could then trade the top pick to someone who really wants lienart and that could cause him to tumble down the board, costing him MILLIONS. if his agent’s smart, he’ll tell him to keep his yapper shut, that houston’s checks cash just as quickly as new york’s. a more likely scenario – he pulls out of the draft, but that, too, is a GIGANTIC risk. and again, he can look at DD and see that a back could thrive here, even with this OL. it’s not like DD is being treated like carr and just getting pounded every week.
You're right, the Texans shouldn't go into the draft only thinking about the OL and I highly doubt they will. But there a some offensive lineman that are worth a top 10 pick, D. Ferguson is being considered a top 3-5 pick. How can you be so sure? Bush ran for 908 yards last season, and is projected to run about 1360 yards this season, now he's gonna run 1500-1600 yards all of the sudden in the NFL? I'm not trying to put down Bush or anything, but he is a RB that is slightly undersized. He has the luxury of being one of the fastest guys on the field during games and has a great OL to do the blocking. He is usually the most athletic player on the field during games, he won't be in the NFL. That won't be the case for the Texans or for a lot of teams. He won't be the fastest guy anymore, hell, there are a lot of NFL LBs that will be able to run him down straight up. He won't have the big holes to run through as much.
well, i don't know what Bush will do. but i know they'll play 16 games...and they don't play 16 games at the college level. so a raw number comparison won't work. i'd draft Ferguson with the first pick we have if it's up to me.
Doesn't Reggie Bush touch the ball maybe 15 times a game or so, a lot of it on flares and other plays to get him into the open field? Do we even know if he could handle the rigors of playing traditional NFL running back with 25-30 carries, many of which right up the gut? This team *could* be successful with Carr and Davis, with a good OL. It *can't* be successful with Carr and Bush, and a crappy OL. In my opinion, you do what needs to be done to trade down and get a powerful OLine. If we still suck, then next year go get a new QB or RB or whatnot.
True, but 1500-1600 yards is still a stretch. I agree that Ferguson should be our pick. Many mock drafts have us picking him up with the #1 overall, but I could see the Texans moving down 2-3 spots to pick up another 2nd rounder or something, we still should be able to steal Ferguson with a top 5 pick. Good post Major. Bush wouldn't be able to do any better than DD with this OL in my opinion. Fix the biggest problem first and then see what else needs fix'n.
He'll probably get around 20 carries per game, plus 5-6 receptions, and maybe 3-4 punt returns. It's already been stated, but the difference between Bush and DD is that Bush can score a TD on any play. He's a playmaker, and there are not to many of those in the NFL.
