God I hate NY and their stuck up attitude. http://www.nj.com/jets/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1131515204250960.xml&coll=1&thispage=1 USC star Reggie Bush has one eye ... on the Jets Wednesday, November 09, 2005 BY KEVIN MANAHAN Star-Ledger Staff LOS ANGELES -- There are two newspaper racks in the student center just a block from Howard Jones Field, where the top-ranked USC football team practices. One for the Los Angeles Times, another for the Daily Trojan. Both newspapers are complimentary. And once in a while, Reggie Bush, on his way past, might flip open a Times, grab a sports section, leave the rest, and start wondering about his future: It's right there, somewhere, in the NFL standings. He'll start at the bottom and work his way up, mulling the pros and cons of each of The Biggest Losers, the franchises unwittingly jockeying into position to pluck one of college football's best players next April. Somewhere among those teams with the big numbers in the right-hand column could be Bush's next address. "I look at that stuff all the time," said Bush, USC's star junior tailback who is expected to declare for the draft. "I keep an eye on how teams are doing. I think about where I might want to go." Let's see ... The Green Bay Packers are 1-7. It's a storied franchise, but it's headed for major upheaval. Quarterback Brett Favre might be Terrell Owens' first-ballot Hall of Fame lock, but Favre is likely to retire at the end of this season. Oft-injured running back Ahman Green could be on his way out of there, too. And, of course, there are those Wisconsin winters. Uh, no thanks. The Houston Texans are 1-7, too. Lousy expansion team taking a big step backward. Unremarkable town with few money-making off-the-field options for a big-name player. City of the fattest people in the USA, according to a recent survey. Please, dear God, no. How about the others? The Baltimore Ravens are 2-6, and their star running back, who spent some time in jail on a drug-sale rap, is still playing like he's in leg irons. But that team is built around defense. The Ravens couldn't find a quarterback in a room full of Unitases. The San Francisco 49ers, also 2-6, are ... well, they're just clueless, frankly. And then there's a just-throwing-it-out-there scenario: The homeless New Orleans Saints move to L.A., somehow weasel another first-round pick, grab Bush and Matt Leinhart ... and convince USC coach Pete Carroll to come back to the NFL. But there's a better chance of the Vikings going on a Disney cruise. Geez, are those my only other options? Well, not exactly, Reg. We left one team out -- the Jets. But they're a disaster, too. The quarterback, who already had trouble getting spirals airborne, is recovering from his second throwing-shoulder surgery. There could be an ugly renegotiation feud on that horizon. Once again, the franchise is playing second fiddle to the Giants, who are headed to the playoffs. J-E-T-S! Mess! Mess! Mess! So, we really didn't even want to bring them up. People back home would be hurt by the rejection. Wait, go back. The Jets? "I'd love to play for the Jets," Bush told The Star-Ledger. "No, really." As he stood in the locker room after the Trojans' 51-21 victory over Stanford last Saturday, Bush didn't even hesitate. After all, he has been looking at those standings, you know. So, go ahead, start planning Curtis Martin Day. Book the bus to Canton. Frame the jersey. Hang that green No. 28 on the wall at Giants Stadium. If the Jets can keep swimming at the bottom of the AFC East pond like contented catfish, they won't have to worry about finding a playmaker who wants to play for them. "New York? I love New York," Bush said. "I was there for the Heisman (Trophy ceremony) last year, and we had a great time. It's a great city. We saw where the Twin Towers used to be. We went to the ESPN Zone. Went to the Heisman (ceremony). That would be a great place to play. There are a lot of opportunities there, too. "I loved the atmosphere, the New York vibe. It's a good place. Lots of marketability." Memo to the Jets: You might have to sell Mr. Bush, however. He was standing outside the locker room Saturday night, a huge man in a replica game jersey, his son's No. 5 on both sides and "DAD" -- all capital letters -- stretched across his wide shoulders. How does he feel about New York? "Well, I didn't get picked up at the airport last year when we went there for the Heisman and that kind of (ticked) me off," he said. No problem. Woody Johnson will gas up the limo and personally pick you up. Other than that? "It would be a great place for Reggie," he said. Even with all of the media scrutiny? "He'd have no problem with that." Probably true. By now, it was 45 minutes after the end of the game, and Bush was still in front of his locker, answering questions from reporters. Most of his teammates already had left. The place looked like a teenager's bedroom, with towels and socks strewn on the floor. And Bush wasn't even fidgeting to go. Wave after wave came at him with mini-recorders, pens and pads. With one foot propped on his stool, he kept responding. About the game. About the Heisman. About his 42-yard touchdown run. About his future. The Heisman might be slipping away. Against Stanford, Bush had 113 yards, but only 12 carries. He has 1,022 yards rushing and 13 TDs -- 11 rushing and two receiving. But Texas QB Vince Young is putting up crazy numbers. Still, Bush might be the top pick in the draft. "Being the No. 1 player selected is a goal, but it's not something I have control over," Bush said. "Teams don't always select the best player. These days it's based more on need." And, boy, do the Jets need a running back. Blame some of Martin's problems this season on the offensive line, but clearly he is not the same runner he was just a season ago, when he won the rushing title. The first guy used to miss him. No more. And with Lamont Jordan U-hauling his stuff to Oakland in the last off-season, the Jets don't have a backfield heir. Derrick Blaylock is not the answer. But even with his great college statistics, Bush knows there will be questions. He already hears them. He is 6 feet and 200 pounds, so some wonder if he can survive the NFL pounding. They will suggest he won't be able to carry the ball 20-plus times a game. They'll slap one of those "Hello, my name is" tags on him and fill in the words "situational back." Of course, they tried to do the same thing to Tiki Barber. "I believe I can play as an every-down back in the NFL," Bush said. "Definitely. I look at myself as a kind of Marshall Faulk-type back. I can carry the ball 25 times and catch it." All that in due time. First, there's the rest of the season, then a national championship bowl game, then the Heisman ceremony. Chances are, Leinhart and Bush will be returning to New York. "I'm looking forward to it," Bush said. "There's a lot I didn't see the first time." Like Weeb Ewbank Hall, the weight room, Herm's office ...
I don't want to draft a OL just because we need one. If the lineman is worthy fine, but don't draft him for need over talent. I say we draft Reggie Bush and trade DD for a 4th round draft pick because of his contract. No way he stays if we draft Bush. I would like him to stay as a second stringer but his contract will be to much.
No, I always will root for the texans, but I wont be sad if they lose. I dont like that strategy to win a draft pick.
Bush isn't going to do any better than DD would with this team. Bush has the luxury of being behind one of the best OL in the NCAA, he'll go from that straight to the worst OL in the NFL. There is a tackle out there named D'Brickshaw Ferguson who is supposedly one of the best OL to come out in a while. They are talking about this guy as a franchise player. I think we should still trade down and get multiple picks.
Need I remind everyone on this board that we got the #1 pick in 1984 (which we used on Hakeem Olajuwon) by tanking the 83 season. Or that the Spurs increased thier chances of landing Duncan by sitting out Miss Robinson midway through. You think Spurs fans, a few championships later, care that they tanked or feel thier team honor has been tainted. Do you feel shame as Rockets fans coz we tanked and got Hakeem? There is nothing wrong with tanking when your as pathetic as the Texans.
How does Bush's O-line help him when hes out in the open field with blazing speed and putty incredible moves on everyone? DD does not have the speed or the moves that Bush has. Reggie Bush is the closest thing to a sure thing i've seen since Marshall Faulk and Lebron James. Have you seen him play?
different sport; not relevant at all. if one player could change the team's fortunes, as can happen in the NBA, then fine. but that doesn't happen in the NFL. everyone keep in mind, the last top overall pick of the texans is currently being run out of town by most of the fans.
I'm not going to say that he's going to be a bust, but in college, he relies on being the fastest player on the field, which likely won't be the case in the NFL where likebackers are faster than alot of college corners.
i'm not saying his line isn't great; it is. but having the quickness, instincts and vision to hit the right holes is a key component of a great back and can make an OL better. run blocking is far easier and a lot less complicated than pass blocking. if you have a back who can explode to the right spot, you need only to have the hole open for a brief time. he then does the rest. it's why guys like payton, simpson and campbell were so effective behind average-to-mediocre lines.
And how many Super Bowls are there between those three? One. I couldn't care less about how spectacular a player is. Tom Brady, Corey Dillion, etc. aren't spectacular players. How many game-breakers were there on the Tampa Super Bowl winner? The last team to have true gamebreakers to win a Super Bowl were the Rams who won in the '99-'00 season. We need talented players who can do their jobs. I know we're nowhere close to it right now, but the goal should be to build a Super Bowl contending team, not a team with players who can put up great stats, yet barely ever make it to the playoffs. Not to mention, there's no guarantee that Bush will be a gamebreaker in the NFL.
That's an interesting take. It does seem like the NFL is more about quanity over quality these days. The Patriots (not this years) have been stacked with good-solid players at every position with no superstars except Brady. We see how well they have been doing in the age of the salary cap. Another example is the Chargers. They passed on one of the most hyped QB prospects to come out in a while in Vick, and parlayed that pick into Tomlinson and Brees. If the Texans do trade out of the top spot they better get several selections in return because I would hate to miss out on a player of Bush's caliber.
The Chargers moved down three spots, took Rivers and got an extra first round pick last year. If we get the top spot, move down a few spots for an OL, there's a good chance that we'll end up with two first round picks in the 2007 draft, not to mention more picks in the upcoming draft. I just think for a team this bad, we don't have the luxury of taking someone who plays the same spot of one of the only positions that can consistently do anything positive in games.
i thought we were talking specifically about why bush had been so productive in college, and whether or not that would translate to the NFL...? but if you want to derail that discussion and go this route instead... yes, the answer is one - which is one more than the oilers had building their OL in the 80's, right? i mean, come on. are you even remotely suggesting payton, simpson and campbell were the reasons those teams didn't reach the super bowl? or that the teams should have traded those picks away, moved down in the draft and picked players who would have gotten them to a SB, as if that's a skill GMs have? one player can't carry a team to a SB, but that doesn't mean the one player should be tossed aside in favor of lesser, but more players. if you'd rather argue the texans are better off with bellichick instead of bush, you'll get no retort from me. but let's get one thing straight: NE's not winning SBs because they don't have any gamebreakers. i doubt bellicheck would pass on adding bush because he's a gamebreaker, and that would foul things up. "we don't those guys mucking up our operations..." bellicheck is winning SBs almost in spite of the talent he's assembled. it is a well-coached team that got lucky with brady and injuries and has tremendous chemistry. you'd be a fool to build a team that tried to duplicate what the pats have done. as for tampa bay, they had a LOAD of gamebreakers on defense; up and down their roster. same with the ravens when they won it. and the best team in the league right now is a playmaker factory on both sides of the ball. so you're assuming bush wouldn't be a differencemaker? or that's he's not talented? maybe he won't make the leap, but then, what is that conclusion based on? he's currently a differencemaker on a team that's won 567 games in a row and are poised to take a crack at a third title. i mean, is your contention that winning teams don't have guys like reggie bush on them? because usc would beg to differ. or that the offensive lineman you want to trade down for will be any good. it's all a crapshoot. all i know is what i see. and if i'm the texans, and i wind up with the top pick, i don't dismiss ANYONE as a possibility under ANY circumstances because this team needs upgrades all across the board. and i sure as hell don't run further off the tracks by reaching for needs and skipping over better players to squeeze a round peg into a square hole. i assume you mean DD. DD is not a gamebreaker. i like him, but teams don't fear him. he doesn't bust games open. he's given space to run between the 20's because he's not a threat to break anything. based on what i've seen, bush would be a tremendous upgrade.
We were. He's on arguably the best team in the country that's got great players at nearly every position. I know you're not arguing that the Texans' current place in the NFL is equivalent to the Trojans' place in the NCAA. The Oilers didn't fail to win or go to the Super Bowl because of their OL. They didn't make it basically due to a bunch of choke jobs. They certainly had better shots to go than the Lions with Sanders or the Bills with O.J. When you're the worst team in the league with one of the worst offensive line of all-time pass blocking wise, you don't ignore that to pick a flashier player to take the place of an RB that's a proven 1,000 yard rusher and a great receiver out of the backfield. C'mon. Three Super Bowl victories in four seasons is simply luck and good-coaching? I think it's probably also helped that they many talented players that just don't happen to be gamebreakers. Corey Dillon is a perfect example of that. Let's have this argument when I say we shouldn't take a defensive gamebreaker. If Reggie Bush was a DL or LB or DB, I'd be all for taking him with the first pick. I'm assuming he won't be a difference maker on the Texans. There's a good chance he will be on the right team. The Texans sure ain't it. That is not my contention, necessarily. Recent history has shown that having a gamebreaker like Reggie Bush doesn't necessarily translate into a Super Bowl contending team. USC wouldn't beg to differ if their talent level in the NCAA was equivalent to the current talent level of the Texans in the NFL. Put Reggie Bush on Temple, is he the same gamebreaker? How is drafting an OL, especially when there may be quite a few projected first rounders, when you have the worst OL in the game, trying to squeeze a round peg into a square hole? Of course this team needs upgrades across the board. You don't use the very first pick in the draft to upgrade the position that arguably needs the least amount of upgrade and ignore the part that needs multiple upgrades. What happens if you have a better pass blocking OL, one that makes teams actually have to worry about the Texans' passing game? He may not be a gamebreaker, but he could be a 1500 yard back rushing, not to mention his pass-catching skills.
Vision, speed, and good run blocking. You've said before that our O-line is good a run blocking, but just not pass blocking, therefore Bush could get into the open field with us just as well as he could with USC. Then from that point on I believe that Bush has the talent to take it the distance while DD does not because IMO DD is not a game breaker. I've also heard that internally the Texans do not think their O-line is that bad, so i'm not sure they feel like they need to draft O-linemen in the first round of the draft. Isn't it Denver who has a really small offensive line, but they work well together and are well coached? Perhaps we should take that approach and try to stick with the O-line guys that we have and get a better O-line coach in here to teach them how to pass block more efficiently.
I'm not sure I ever said our line was good at run blocking, just that they're not as bad at run blocking as they are at pass blocking. I still think that Bush is surrounded by arguably the best team in the NCAA. He won't be able to do the same things on arguably the least-talented team in the NFL. Until we improve our pass blocking, teams will continue to stack the line to stop the run. He won't be a gamebreaker on the Texans until we improve that. Until then, why waste a 1st pick on someone who you wouldn't even be able to really utilize his skills. If they don't think it's that bad, then that's their problem. It doesn't take a genius to see that they're a horrible pass-blocking OL. If that's the case, it doesn't really matter who we take as their stubborness will prohibit any significant improvement until McNair wises up and fires the lot of them. Hopefully he doesn't share that assessment and gets rid of the whole bunch this offseason.
Well whoever said that needs to be fired. Whoever said that probably thinks a pocket is only for clothes. Whoever said that thinks passing lanes are only on highways. The only way someone should start off a statement by saying, "the Texans' offensive line isn't that bad" better finish it off with a good punch line, or failing that, "April Fool's."
nope, but bush is one of the reasons it's arguably the best team in the country; it certainly wouldn't be better w/o him – surely you’re not arguing that. his speed, vision and tenacity are not products of a system. well, first of all, sanders played in a championship game; campbell played in two; dickerson in one. those oiler teams never did. but you’re making a specious argument. i never said bush makes the texans a SB contender; i just disagreed with your contention that he wouldn’t be productive behind HOU’s OL. like simpson, payton, sanders, campbell, he could definitely succeed behind an average to mediocre or worse OL. bush is not merely "flashier;" he's better. and LD is a "great" receiver out of the backfield; so, too, is holmes and james. DD is not in their class. not good coaching, great coaching. and chemistry. and scheme. and yes, luck. and sure, some of that is because there aren’t great players asked to perform below their egos. TO, for example, isn’t being asked to be a decoy, etc. but if you want to keep playing the patriot card, fine - how many of their starting OL were first round picks? of all their linemen, exactly one was picked in round 1. and he wouldn't be starting if their usual starter, a 2nd rounder, was healthy. meanwhile, they currently have two undrafted players starting on the right side. or when you specify. here's what you said, "How many game-breakers were there on the Tampa Super Bowl winner?" you didn't ask about offense, nor did you exclude defense. a game breaker is a game breaker, and teams that win have a lot of them on their rosters, NE excluded. getting rid of them certainly doesn’t mean you’ll succeed. why not? davis is a fairly productive back on this team; is your contention that bush is not appreciably better than davis because he is. watch them in the open field. davis gets caught; bush doesn’t. those are significant yards. if this OL is good enough to get davis in the clear, then bush would be an upgrade because if he, too, can hit the clear, he’s a game breaker. yes, he is. again, davis produces behind what you've called the worst line in the nfl, so why do you think bush would struggle behind an inferior line in an inferior conference? again, usc's scheme, et al, aren't the reason bush is as fast and elusive as he is. you’re coming close to proclaiming bush a product of the system. palmer was in that system – would you trade carr for palmer? i would. in a heartbeat. because you then have to pay a middle round pick first overall money, and if they're not worthy of that money, you've bungled your cap because that’s $5-10M you don’t have to spend on help in FA. or to resign a key member of your core. i'm not opposed to trading down and getting a good OL at his perceived value. nor do i oppose taking the OL if he grades at the top of the draft. i just don't want them picking a 5-10 guy #1 because they're desperate and in doing so, watch a legitimate #1 go elsewhere. remember - I know different sports, but it's a relevant comparison - the blazers drafted for need in '84. you get burned drafting for needs far more often than taking the consensus best pick. another example: NO taking mcallister when they had williams. if you have a chance to land the best player in the draft, and he's heads and tails the best player in the draft, you don't pass on him to get the…. 5th or 6th or 10th best player in the draft. you don’t pass on him to get the 2nd best player in the draft. first of all, davis is not, nor will he ever be a 1500 yard back. but let's say I'm waaaaaaay off on him, and other teams value him as much as you seem to - if bush is an upgrade, couldn't you then turn around and deal davis and upgrade your team in another area? you'd get a better back and… let's say a 2nd round-equivalent talent to add to your OL. would you do that? sacrifice davis to upgrade two positions? further, ask drew bress if he'd downgrade his RB in order to open up his passing game. again, i'm not contending the texans don't need help on the OL. i'm not even sure bush is the definitive best player in the draft. just that, if he is… then you either take him or trade his rights. you don't, under any circumstances, stay where you are, pass on him and then take a lesser player.
