Don't even try and compare a third-round draft pick (Schaub) to a seventh-round draft pick (Cassel). Don't even try and act like the expectations are similar. You have to be kidding. Third-round draft picks are considered MUCH more likely to succeed. Besides this, you act like #1 overall draft pick is some arbitrary label a player is born with. It's not. #1 overall draft picks are determined BY HOW SCOUTS VALUE THEIR NFL-PROJECTIBLE ABILITIES. While this largely can be done in college, there are exceptions where scouts find these projectibles AFTER a player has entered the league. That was the case with Schaub, scouts around the league and the Texans saw it, and identified it CORRECTLY. And you're still trying to argue it. Mind-boggling. My "incoherent tangent" is based on talking to people around the Texans and scouts around the league. Your "analysis" is based on pulling stuff out of your ass and what things "seem" TO YOU. Which seems more valid?
It's a pretty simple argument - you're just choosing to ignore it because it goes against your pre-established belief. No surprise there.
LOL, you definitely aren't doing that If you are serious that the Falcons drafted Matt Schaub to be more than a backup, you are delusional.
Oh, so all backup quarterbacks are created equal, simply because they carry the label backup? I guess, by extension, that all starters are too, correct? Peyton Manning = Jake Delhomme... got it
honestly, you are an idiot they were not rookies when they were traded, who gives a **** where they were drafted? They were both drafted to be backup quarterbacks. They were both veterans by the time they were traded, their draft position didn't matter. As backup quarterbacks, Cassel had proven more than Schaub did, that isn't even debatable. Dave Ragone was a 3rd round pick, what were his expectations?
thanks for mentioning dave ragone's name. Now i am going to have to go lick the men's restroom floor to get the bad taste out of my mouth.
Confusing thread is confusing. I also thought we gave up a crapload for Schaub because we were desperate, but i's looking pretty darn good right now.
Rhino, From the 2007 draft, without a 2nd round pick, we acquired Okoye, Jones, Studdard, and Diles. Now, I agree that Okoye hasnt lived up to the expectations, but all 4 of these guys are big contributors on the team. Studdard will be the starter by the beginning of the season. Okoye is a starter. Jones has played very well...and Diles is a solid LB. That is 4 players out of the 6 selections that have big roles on the team, whether they are studs or not. In 2008, again, without a 2nd round pick, we got Duane Brown, Slaton, and Adibi. 2 big contributors and a solid back up, when healthy. 2009, I dont even need to mention. These are solid draft choices. Now, you continue to play the card that we havent had good drafts, yet you make no claim as to who has done well drafting. In other words, you are completely making a baseless claim. You have no idea how teams have drafted, yet you can declare that the Texans arent among the handful of teams that have had success drafting. At least Ive tried to make my point to you by showing the the Texans have definitely had better drafts than the two super bowl teams from last season.
I brought up Matthew Stafford earlier in this thread, who isn't a rookie. Why wouldn't the Lions trade him for a Cassel-equivalent today? You just said proven production is the only thing that matters for a non-rookie, so...
But thats the thing...according to who? Why should Cassel have a higher price tag? As far as pure quarterbacking, I didnt see anything that screamed franchise QB when he played in New England. And by the way, I lived in Boston during that season, so I watched every single game. He was never impressive. He did his job and he played his role, but I never once thought he would be a quarterback that could carry a team. You dont think more teams would have been jumping to get a franchise QB if it only cost them a 2nd round pick? On the other hand, people might not thought Schaub was worth 2 second round picks...but guess what, isnt that credit to Smith/Kubiak? They are the ones that watched film and scouted him...they are the ones that made the decision that he was worth the 2 draft picks...and they were dead on. +1 for Smith.
Matt Cassel took advantage of a freak injury to Brady and had a career season in 2008, the Patriots sold high and traded Cassel at his highest value. But before taking over for Brady, he was rumored to get cut and being a potential starter wasn't even in his horizon. Bill Belichick, having had experience handling another QB picked in the low rounds with Brady, knew how to keep Cassel out of bad situations. Matt Schaub, while never even getting the game starts like Cassel did in 2008, still showed enough to the Texans for them to trade for him with the aforementioned 2 second rd picks and the 1st rd pick swap. While I'm in no way comparing Schaub to Favre, I liken the trade like the Falcons trading Favre to the Packers when Favre had limited snaps as a Falcon. Then Packers GM Ron Wolf wanted to draft Favre himself (when Wolf was with the Jets) but the Falcons beat him to it, so he got Favre a year later. So too did Kubiak and Rick Smith scouted Schaub way before hand, and deemed him the best potential starting QB option at the time. The Falcons sorta bent over the Texans because they knew the QB situation over here at the time, knew that Carr was on the outs and that the Texans needed a starting QB. But Smith/Kubiak proved the high price for getting Schaub was worth it. So to me, Cassel was a one trick pony that the Patriots sold high on. Schaub was the well scouted one and that was deemed having a higher upside, but may have been sold higher because of the Texans situation at the time.
Holy ****, what the hell happened here? All I did was bring up the 2nd round picks for Schaub/Cassel and everyone goes off like donkey kong.
Don't mean to add more gasoline to the fire, but think about it this way.. If the michael vick scandal fully surfaces around feb of 2007, there is no way the falcons trade matt the great, not even if we offered our 1st round pick. I found this on The Bleacher Report, which I agree with: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/363008-remember-that-matt-schaub-trade-well-i-do "Now here is the part that is hard to swallow. Matt Schaub has become, arguably, one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL. Now this is not to say that Matt Ryan will not become one far from, but the truth is at this point Schaub is a better quarterback. He has proven that he can make all of the throws and has the ability to lead a team. Last season he lead the league in passing yards and had a career highs in games played, quarterback rating and touchdown passes. So was it a good trade? Well as far as the players given up compared to the players gained the answer is no. The Falcons received nothing close to the value of a Pro Bowl quarterback, then when you add in the other players it appears like a dumb trade."
I'm gonna step in and just say this....so far I have agreed with pretty much everything rezdawg has said in this thread. Second of all, nobody mentioned, when it comes to value, that generally, more teams were after Schaub than Cassel. Part of this stems from the fact that teams generally saw Schaub as a potential Pro-Bowl quarterback. (I thought, at the time, we gave up way too much for Schaub...now, our picks turned into Justin Blalock and Sam Baker...someone who Atlanta used our pick to trade up to get...I'm very happy with the trade. I feel we would have taken Amobi anyways, so the switch doesn't matter). As far as Cassel goes, yeah, there was a little interest, but it did seem to me like there wasn't as much as there was for Schaub. As we have all seen by this thread, this is definitely a subjective observation. Another subjective observation, that may be truly unique to me, but I don't think so, is this one: I feel there was less interest in Cassel because most, besides former Bellichick spinoffs (*cough* Scott Pioli*cough*), felt that Cassel was an NFL version of a system quarterback. Like has been said before, Cassel inherited a 16-0 team that virtually remained the same, and took them to 11-5 or something close to that. That's decent, but most serviceable backups could have done that. Anyways, so far in Kansas City, I feel that Cassel has emerged as maybe someone that isn't just a "system" guy like some thought, but he's an average quarterback. I'm perfectly happy, more value or less, that we payed an extra second round pick for our top-tier quarterback. The other angle that no one has discussed, is that, if you remember, when the Cassel trade happened, most in the league were puzzled as to why New England agreed to send Cassel and Vrabel to the Chiefs for a second round pick. Then, people realized that the trade, was basically a favor for Scott Pioli, who had just taken over his new job with the Chiefs... Oh yeah, the Patriots got Patrick Chung with their pick from the Chiefs. Not that it matters, cuz it's not necessarily the debate, but he's looking like a pretty good player. The Texans did not get a favor from the Falcons in their trade, nor should they have. And that is all I have to say about that.
