I agree the O-line is more important than the QB, but the OL is made of 5 players, not one. It makes more sense to try to get 5 good OL and great QB, than 1 great OL plus good-average other OL and QBs. OL is the one group where 1 great player has the least impact if the other OL can't hold there own. This isn't simply because of mathmatics (line consists of 5 players), but also because the collective teamwork of a line is more important than any standout individual lineman. For instance, despite Roaf, the Saints line sucked compared to the Rams or 49ers lines who have no one individual of that caliber. If McKinnie really is that much better than the other players, than trade the pick for a decent 1st rounder this year (even if you select the 2nd or 3rd best OL if that is what you want--I would try to get Carr or Harrington pending the below comments) plus later picks this year plus multiple future 1st rounders. I don't meam rely on the combine alone. But I know Carr and Harrington are players and leaders, as long as their combine results are pretty good I am sold on both players. I don't see any college QB coming out the next 2 years with as many ingredients, with the exception of maybe Leftwich. To me a poor to modest combine is the only thing that would keep me from spending a sub-8 pick on either Carr or Harrington.
After seeing Ogden shut down Jason Taylor, and thinking about the degree Raof and Boselli's absences may have hurt their teams, I am re-thinking my positition somewhat. A LT is still not my #1 choice, but if McKinney really is that much better than eveyone else you certainly wouldn't be going wrong with taking him. I still rather trade down from #1 and take Carr, Harrington or Peppers plus extra picks down the line, but again, if McKinney looks to be much better than those guys that isn't a bad way to start a team at all.
If you can protect a crappy QB and give him time (ie Gannon), any NFL QB can pick apart a defense. A great QB can pick you apart regardless of the pressure. What I found really interesting was the RAM-TITAN superbowl. THe Titans literally had a man in Kurt Warners face all night. The Rams had a hard time scoring, but he thre for 275 first half yards against Tenn. The whole time complaining he didn't have any time to throw the ball. I'd draft McKinnie and take my chances on an average QB for a few years.
I like you Kidrock, you know what your talking about With out protection your Qb aint doing squat, without a passrush, theyll throw all day The Texans should take McKinnie with the #1 pick, if not they must trade it, not take Carr or harrington,
I'll take Bret Farve and an average OL over Elvis Grbac and a great OL anyday. Farve alone chewed up the Raven's defense this year, just like Marino did to the 85 Bears. A trully phenomenal QB (Elway, Farve, or Marino in their prime) can change a game more drammatically than any single player playing any other position. You can beat them, but you need a fine defense and sound offense to do it.
I believe that the offensive & defensive line should be where we pump the most funds into at first. There's no point in getting a young stud quarterback if we can't protect him. Depending on what players are available through the expansion draft, we should go for any good, young, veteran offensive & defensive linemen that we can get, first. Then draft & trade for the skill positions. As for quarterbacks, if we suck (& we probably will for a while) for the next 2-4 years & get the #1 overall pick, then we'll be ready to draft a franchise type quarterback. Isn't that about the time that Vincent Young will be coming out?
Thanks. Have you considered starting up a Kidrock8 Fanclub? Over the years, I came to the realization that in the NFL, you have to win the battle of the lines. Skill players get less and less dominant as they move from HS to college to NFL. Look at Peter Warrick... The skill position players are too reliant on the OL or DL, to not put a huge emphasis on building a dominant OL and DL. I don't care 1 bit about drafting LBs. Half of LB play is dictated by how good the DL is. Hell, you can say that for every non-DL or non-OL position.
Ric, If you read this, do you still believe that the Texans prefer Carr over Harrington? I'm starting to get the vibe that the Texans may trade down for one of those two quarterbacks, but every article that I've seen management quoted seems to favor Carr over Harrington. Carr may be bigger with a slightly better arm, but I'm personally really starting to like Harrington. His arm strength and size may not be great, but they're good enough, and he simply knows how to win. He may make some unorthodox throws at times, and may take chances, but so did Brett Favre. However, people like Mel Kiper made Harrington the top rated QB, and Mel actually has him second overall on his draft board behind Peppers. Do you think the Texans value him that highly, both at the quarterback rankings and overall draft board? Also, do you find it curious that none of the FA signings so far have been receivers? Is that potentially a sign that we might look at a quality WR in the draft, or am I reading too much into these current signings? I realize most will have a limited role with the team, if any at all.
Well, let us look at Jerry Rice instead. I do believe if the next Jerry Rice was coming out he would be the first pick without question. Football is played with 11 guys, there is only so much 1 player can do. Look at Indy, 2 years ago they were crap eveywhere but QB, WR and RB, yet there skills players along were enough to make them competitive (like a 11-5 record). But, yes I agree with the general statement that lines are the single most important factor, but lines are made of 4-6 guys (if you include TE on offense), thus any 1 lineman has the least impact on the line as a whole relative to other aspects of the team. Basically, I think the Raven's fluke has biased this view. I think if we get the Ravens versus the Rams in the superbowl we will see the better skill players with decent lines crush the great fronts and average skill of the Ravens. Thus I think a Marshall Faulks, Mannings, Couchs, McNabbs, James, Vicks, Williams, etc, will be just as valuable as always in the drafts. I would say the Bears and Ravens) would disagree about how important their linebackers are. In fact, the two of the three best defenses in the league are lead by the two best linebackers in the league (Pittsburgh, the other one, is also lead by fine LBs), where as the team with the best defensive lineman is home (Giants). However, I don't mean to use this example to say DL is un-important, in truth I think a great DE or great LB (inside or outside) is the most important building block for a great defense, with a great DT not far behind.
no idea; i think it's too early to know much of anything. i will say this notion that harrington knows how to win is a tad overblown. i mean, after all, apparently, so does carr. (do you think fresno's a 10-2 team without him?) a lot of qb's have won at the ncaa level -- it's not necessarily a harbinger of things to come on the next level. my feeling is both are mid-to-late first round guys, maybe even second round guys, who are benefiting greatly from 1) an unbelievably weak crop of qb's; 2) a real need in the nfl for more quality signal callers. i hope the texans stay away from both (unless they come with additional draft picks). i have no idea, and i doubt the texans do, either. it is so early in the process. we'll know a lot more after the combines and individual workouts. at this point, i'd take anything and every thing the texans say with a grain of salt -- it's common to leak a lot of misinformation this time of year. i'd wager a paycheck they have an idea who they want, but nothing definitive -- remember, the list of underclassmen still hasn't been finalized. ERRRRR-lee. it's curious, sure, but there might be a logical explanation; ie none of the guys available did much to excite them. the draft is deep in WR's, but, man... i wouldn't touch a RB or WR until at least the fourth round (unless a stud falls into your lap unexpectedly).
Those that say Harrington has leadership intangibles than Carr doesn't did not see enough of Davis Carr. I saw Harrington and Carr both play multiple times, and I think neither are overrated one iota and they both were great leaders. Both of them were the keys to their offenses, had improvosational abilities (unlike say Troy Aikman), and lead their teams numerous times in the last seconds. To me they are the best passing prospects since Coach, Manning and Leaf (well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad; I leave out McNabb and Vick out because of their multi-threat ability). The only thing that would keep me from picking either of them is if specific issues (weak NFL arm, dumber or slower than they seem) come up at the combines. If things guys score very well in their combine, grab them, because everything else points ot the real deal. It is not like these players grow on trees. These guys definetely have more tools than someone like Dorsey or Grossman. The only guy who may have more passing skills in the college ranks is Marshall's Leftwich, so again, it is not like you can pick up guys like this year in and year out.
Does anyone here have access to ESPN Insider? There's a link on the front page with Kiper's mock draft - Harrington to Texans? I'd really appreciate it if someone could post that here or at least the part where he talks about Harrington and the Texans. Thanks.
I think it's intresting to note that there are really no teams out there with 5 1st round draft picks on their line, or 5 pro bowlers or whatever. Even though a good line on both sides is important, I think that if you drop all of your cash into the lines, there's a point of diminishing returns, where part of what makes the great guys great is that they help pull up the ok guys. Too many great linemen = no synergy and no stud skill players. kidrock8 I think, perhaps, that your thinking re: LB's is built around a 4-3. In the 3-4 of the Texans, the ends & NG are 2gap, reactive run stuffers, not the gap-fireing sack machines you might prefer in the 4-3. The 3-4 is all about the outside LB's rushing the QB.
Do you notice that the Bears AND Ravens BOTH have the 2 best pair of NGs in the league? It's not coincedence... The Bal and Chi LB's are able to roam freely because the NG's require the 3 interior OL to block them. Sometimes teams need to use 4 blockers against the 2 NT's, which creates a huge advantage for the Chi and Bal LB's. The Chi LB's are vastly overrated. Urlacher is good, but not great just yet. And the Chi OLB's were nobody's until Chi put in Traylor and Washington, 2 of the best run-stuffers in the league. LB is prob THE position that benefits the most from good DL play.
The key to stopping the run is by having 2 fat ass NG's. The key to stopping the pass is by having 2 good DE's.
