What in the world are you even talking about??? Who is suggesting Schaub is ruined? If you can't see the difference between Carr and Schaub you're blind.
Carr hasn't played much in Carolina. I saw him in the preseason, though. Still has the same issues. Still has the same funky delivery. Still had balls batted away at the line.
Carr is damaged goods IMO and probably will never be much of anything. I actually feel kinda sorry for the guy for the physical beating he took here. That was an absolute disgrace. While I am in agreement with you that Schaub has performed much better than pretty David, I simply can't rip him for being the pitiful QB that he is today. Recall that I once pointed out the saga of Dan Pastorini. Like DC, he was a no. 1 pick for the Houston Oilers and just like DC, he played on a team with an atrocious OL. Many games it was if there was no OL in there to block for the guy. The physical beating he took back then was much more severe because there weren't the rules in place to protect the QB like today. Opposing players hit him so many times, they would publicly express how sorry they felt for the guy in post-game interviews. Even today, I consider it a miracle that he can even go to the bathroom by himself today let alone walk upright. Now he's the gist of my point: Two very similar situations - young QBs drafted by bad teams and thrown to the wolves. Forced to endue years of losing and facing responsibility for their teams' lack of success. In the case of Pastorini, he was mentally strong enough to persevere. He did not let this beat him down nor did it ever kill his desire to win. He never questioned himself nor his abilities as a QB. In the case of Carr, the physical beating got to him because he was not mentally strong enough to handle it. Worse, by his 5th year here, it was obvious that he had lost his confidence in his ability to play the position. Once that happened, he was effectively done. I cannot make fun of the guy for that because that's just the way it is in life. Some people simply can handle more adversity that others. Carr looks to be one of the "others".
Apparently you missed Sunday's postgame reactions (read panic) from many Texans fans who were saying just that in reference to the beating Schaub took in the Titans game where he took a lot of the same kind of hits that wrecked Pretty David's body and psyche.
oh, yeah - and i said as much. he's an upgrade. how much? we'll know when they address the problems around him. as with carr, my problem isn't with schaub. but, like carr, he's going to need: better protection, a better running game, more playmakers.
it's a better team, and schaub is a better QB. i've said as much. the team OVERALL is better; their special teams has been upgraded significantly. matt turk has been a godsend. and the defense, which last year had such a rough start, has been much, much better, and much more opportunistic. in fact, the D and ST have scored four TDs so far this year. if you extrapolate those TDs and the 4 from Sunday's crazy 4Q (which schaub wasn't a part of), the offense is averaging about 17/game. failed to upgrade it, major; not change it. new scheme, different starters - you can make an OL better by adding nothing to ti. and yes, as a "group" it hasn't changed. but the starting line-up has. neither mckinney nor winston were starters opening day last year; that's a 40% turnover. they did think walter was better; a) it's why they released moulds; b) kubiak has repeatedly said walter's lack of playing time last year was one of his biggest mistakes. davis was not a pratice squad player; hasn't been eligible for that in years. and yes, aj, jones, walter and davis is an off-the-charts better corps than aj, moulds, walter. not even close. i mean, you can't even NAME the 4th WR of that group again, my problem isn't with schaub. i agree, and have said, he's been an upgrade. it's a better TEAM; but many of the same "excuses" are rearing their ugly head once again. it's not an indictment of schaub, and its certainly not an endorsement of carr. more confirmation that those who saw that the problems were bigger than carr were right. this team still has a lot of work to do.
Agreed, sort of. You and Major have both made good points in this discussion. As far as "those who saw that the problems were bigger than Carr" goes, those who fit precisely into that category were indeed right. Exactly right. Then there were folks like me, who thought the problems were exclusive of Carr. Exactly wrong I was. Carr sucks.
Panthers to start 43-year-old Testaverde over Carr CHARLOTTE, N.C. — The old man will get another chance for the Carolina Panthers. Coach John Fox on Friday named 43-year-old Vinny Testaverde the starting quarterback for Sunday's game against Indianapolis. Testaverde got the nod ahead of David Carr, who is recovering from a back injury. "It's not an indictment on David Carr by any stretch. I don't feel he's 100 percent," Fox said. "He's healthy enough to play, but I don't think he's 100 percent." Carr practiced Friday and is listed as probable. The surprising move pits Testaverde, in his 21st season, against reigning Super Bowl MVP Peyton Manning as the Panthers try to become the first team to beat the Super Bowl champions this season. Testaverde said on Monday he thought Carr would start. Carr said the same on Wednesday, when Fox said he would play, but not necessarily start, if he was healthy. But Fox said he didn't think Carr had progressed enough during the week, after sustaining a compression fracture in his lower back against New Orleans on Oct. 7. "It's not a season-long decision. It will be game to game," Fox said. Testaverde was out of the league after being cut by New England before the start of the regular season. The Panthers called him when they learned Jake Delhomme would be lost for the season to an elbow injury and after Carr hurt his back. Testaverde flew into town last Wednesday and learned enough of the offense to start four days later against Arizona. He then turned in a nearly flawless performance, throwing for 206 yards, including the go-ahead 65-yard touchdown pass to Steve Smith in the fourth quarter of a 25-10 win. Testaverde, who turns 44 next month, became the oldest starting quarterback to win a game. He also extended his own record by throwing at least one touchdown pass in 21 consecutive seasons. Carr, a five-year starter in Houston, was signed by Carolina in the offseason after being released by the Texans. Running back DeShaun Foster (toe) practiced for a second straight day Friday and is listed as probable. Linebackers Dan Morgan (Achilles' tendon) and Adam Seward (calf) will not play.
It's not an indictment on Carr. He's healthy enough to play but we'd rather start the 43 year old guy who has been on our roster all of about a week now. But that doesn't communicate anything about David.
I have a feeling we will be hearing how Vinny is actually a really good NFL QB. Although this is good news since I have steve smith on my fantasy team.
1. it's the OL's fault 2. maybe steve smith isn't as good a playmaker as we thought 3. he has no running game to help him 4. you may not have seen dobermans on the field...but i'm telling you, there were dobermans on the field.
He's just an old NFL QB. (off-topic But wasn't he at one time a really good NFL QB? How much of his legacy as a pretty good QB is tainted by playing through his prime with the Bucs (not today's Bucs, the Texans-like Bucs)?
Of course you didn't see the dobermans. Because you didn't watch the game. Get your nose out of the box score and smell the dogcrap! [/makingfunofself]
I know its fun to pile on Carr now that he's officially hit the lowest of the low... but I still think his career would have turned out differently had he gone to a team that allowed him to learn the NFL, and grow within a system, without being simply thrown in there (the Tony Romo development plan... or hell, the Matt Schaub development plan). He never should have been the #1 pick... and he never should have been the #1 pick of an EXPANSION team, with no real structure in place. And I'd say the same if Carson Palmer, Eli Manning, or Philip Rivers were up for draft during the Texans expansion year. (and note that NONE of those three were thrown into the starting lineup like Carr was, and they all played for teams much more established).
Probably so, probably so. But I think what MM is reacting to is the emphatic protection of Carr by certain poster's who, because they run a fan site, refuse to admit that Carr had become a large part of the problem.
But Ric has time and time again basically said the same thing I just said... that the franchise/system failed Carr long before he was even given a chance to develop (even if he would have ultimately become a mediocre/middle-of-the-road starter). Most QB's would have been destined to fail in that same situation... many being knocked out due to serious injury with some of the hits Carr took (he was semi-resilient).
as nick said, i saved my sharpest daggers for mcnair, casserly & capers; carr, imo, was merely caught in the perfect storm of ****. we'll never know what he might have been. and my running a fan site has nothing to do with anything -- what? do you think david carr is footing the bill? hell, i was one of the first to openly worry about david carr - as far back as september 2003. i know, i know - remember how vehemently we would argue that there WERE dobermans on the field... seems so silly now. btw, MM, out of curiosity, which of the "excuses" you listed has schaub corrected? the running game is anemic; there are still exactly, let's see: 1, 2... ZERO playmakers beyond AJ; and schaub has missed time (and now, maybe a game) due to injury courtesy of piss-poor pass protection. but no, no, no -- let's forget all that and instead keep our focus and ire on david carr. still. maybe if he continues to fail elsewhere, it'll make all of our problems go away. btw, did you hear that loser's latest "excuse"? p***y. this guy battled DOBERMANS, and he's going to let a broken back impact his play?....
