Tex Winter Ranks Eric Snow, Tinsley, Bremer, + more ahead of SF!

Im sorry, but i watched all 82 games and to be honest almost all gaurds could say they do dumb things like drive into a full lane... Francis makes mistakes.... He isnt god.

 

some of you are trying to find faults in steve's game that may have kept him off the list. yes he has them but the fact remains though that you can do the exact same with just about any player on there.

ok so steve's never been in the playoffs. why is andre miller in there? gilbert arenas? these guys are bigger winners then steve? come again.

it's not about being a rocket's fan or a steve fan, it's about common sense.

 

What a r****d! What a dumb f'n r****d this guy is.

 

So.... I guess you and DavidS know way more than the rest of us and there is obviously some obvious truth that we are too blind to see

 

How ironic you say this...

 

Tex Winter isn't a r****d. You think he doesn't know J.R Bremer is NO better than Francis? he doesn't know Bremer is a bench warmer and Francis an all star? He knows but he wants to leave Francis off the list. Winter is calling Francis out, deliberately humiliating him because for whatever reason he doesn't like Francis. You guys are wasting your time to either bash or defend the order in his list.

 

Heh heh...

Francis! Prove Tex wrong. I dare you!

 

You don't pay pg's 86 mil to make stupid amature mistakes. I don't expect him to be GOD but for 86 mil he better be damn f**cking close!!

All I can close with is: 4 years in the NBA and ABSOLUTLY ZERO on the court improvement. That is all you can say. You can't bring up any pointless stats that show otherwise. Steve Francis is still the same basketball player right now that he was 4 years ago!!

 

Its funny how this started.....DavidS never said J.R. Bremer is better than Steve, but you guys decide that thats what he thinks for him, and call him a f*cking idiot for it. Good God! Is there no such thing as open debate at this place. So what if Tex Winter dosen't think Steve is any good anyway? or just doesn't like him? Who gives a rats ass? Steve will have to show me a lot more on the court before I go telling people to rot in hell for criticizing him. And believe me, whether DavidS or others agruments are right or wrong, those of you cursing them, and saying they're idiots, look like fools to anyone whos matured past pre-teen mentality!

go Rockets!

 

FYI, donut, DavidS has a history of making ridiculous anti-rocket arguments (though he claims to be a rocket fan, I have my doubts) which all generally have the common theme of the fact that we are all a bunch of yokel homers who don't know anything about basketball because the Bulls of the 1990's were the greatest (which is why it is not surprising he is defending 84 year old former Bulls assistant Tex Winter and his alzheimers list).

He's a big boy and he likes the attention. So he can deal with it.

 

If someone (Francis) keeps butting his head against a wall wouldn't you say something about it?

Or, would you just blindly defend that person, because he was your friend/buddy? Your defintion of a "Rocket fan" is just different.

You know, they use to say that Titanic was "unsinkable." Anyone that belived otherwise was called an "idiot."

If Francis keeps doing the same things he's aways done, we'll surely will never win a championship. It will be just a sinking ship, taking the team and fans with them.

 

The real problem in this thread is the lack of clarification of the true standards that were behind the ranking. And the real problem w/DavidS's argument is that the standards that support any justification of Winter's argument are poor.

What does "most complete PG" really mean?

1. Does it mean you rate a guy in 5 categories, add up the score, and rank them? If so, Francis does pretty well. Even with his very obvious deficiencies, he's so exceptional at other things that he more than compensates. And no matter what DavidS may wish, you can't not consider his athleticism. Otherwise, my guess is some guy who graduated from Princeton is probably #1 on that list (well, except for not being in the NBA). It's meaningless.

Tex Winter's omission fails the test of logic by this rubric.

2. Does it mean: pick the categories, add up the score, but automatically throw out any candidate with a score below a certain mark in a particular candidate? This is, imo, the only justification for ommitting Francis. But, then, I'm not sure if some of those guys (such as Bremer) can make that list if you do that: they don't score well enough.

Tex Winter's omission of Francis fails the test of logic by this rubric.

3. Does it mean: what overall value does the player have? By this standard, Francis would have to do exceptionally well. His teams may not have been playoff bound, but he's now been the best player on 2 winning teams - in the West. I'll bet money that the Rockets were better than some teams who's PG's made that list from the East last year. Francis would have to be one of the highest guys under this rburic.

Tex Winter's logic fails if this was the standard.

4 Does it mean: these are the guys that Tex Winter likes make the list. He doesn't like Francis, perhaps because he's cheeky, a bit foolish on the court, and relies too much on athleticism.

This isn't a standard. It's Tex Winter's bias taking full effect. Objective rankings in basketball is impossible (well, close to meaningless), but this is the worst. I can't stand Marbury. But you can bet he'd make my list.

 

This whole thread is hilarious, from the first post on.

 

haven, I think that Francis's exceptional athletic abilities do NOT compensate. They hold him back because he depends on them too much. Maybe statistally, they do. But that's just fodder.

And saying that a guy from Princeton would be 1# is a form of extremism that I never implied. The best combination is Francis's athletic ability with a solid fundamentals. That would be unstoppable.

Again, with all his quickness, speed, and leaping ability is just a bunch of "sound an fury" that is meaningless if he doesn't know how to use them intelligently.

By the way, wouldn't that be hillarious if Tex's list was on guards that he "liked" or "prefered?"

Honestly, I've never met the guy! Really!

 

this is verry funny.
DavidS can you explain to me why bremer, arenas and are above francis, because if you really want to look at the succes their teams have had, i do not know why you would put those 2 ahead of francis. i know you are having fun trying to get everybody mad, because you can't be that stupid.

Another question: wheren't you a suns fan? (this is a serious question, i thought i read thet a couple of months ago).

but this is a funny thread to keep the off season interesting

 

DavidS must be having fun playing the advocatus diaboli. If he is serious...well...there goes the credibility.

I tend to think that they somehow "forgot" Francis.

Anyway, does anyone know how he ranked the PFs? Kind of curious about that.

 

Winter obviously has something personal against Francis or this is just something he threw together so quick that he forgot to include him. For all we know he may have been providing this list over the phone off the top of his head, which is what probably happened.

The article is totally distinguishing between "pure point guards" and combo guards. Fine...whatever. It's true that Francis isn't a "traditional PG," which really doesn't have any bearing on determining who the better player is. On the combo list Franics is at worst #4 and at best #2.

Just so everyone knows, Winter would have rated John Stockton the #1 Point Guard in the league if he hadn't retired...he's basing his ratings purely on how they play rather than how much they produce. Don't take it too seriously.

 

He is getting pretty old. Maybe it was just a senior moment. Seriously, SF was the only PG in the league last year who had 20/6/6 and I think he was one of only 3 guys last year (I believe KG and Pierce were the others) to do it. I would challenge you to justify putting Snow, Bremer, and Tinsley over Francis.

 

Maybe Tex just forgot Steve!??!

 

Winter musta went to eddie's house to smoke a lil b4 he wrote that article.

How do you have scrubs like Eric Snow and Tinsley over SF? Marbury and Kidd are the only point gaurds that might be betta than SF. No contest.