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Testing issues could derail Mayweather-Pacquiao

Discussion in 'Other Sports' started by TheGreat, Dec 22, 2009.

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rockmanslim Member

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SamFisher said:

Take the Pac Man nuts out of your mouth long enough to read this.

Floyd has fought from a low of 130 to a high of 154 (though his last fight was 142.) He's currently fighting 2 weight classes and 17 lbs above where he was in 1996 - 13 years ago.

13 years ago, Manny Pacquiao (1 year younger than Floyd) was fighting around 108, at light flyweight. He has since packed on 34 lbs of pure muscle (33% of his bodyweight) and is now fighting at WW, 9 weight classes higher.

Get it?
Click to expand...

Another thing, Floyd weighed-in for his last fight at 146, two pounds above the catchweight of 144 in violation of the original terms of the contract. This is well documented so I'm sure that was just a typo.

#141 rockmanslim, Dec 27, 2009

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Ok, so who keeps giving me rep to tell me about my grammar mistakes? Its called a typo!!

#142 Angkor Wat, Dec 27, 2009
vlaurelio Contributing Member

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What do you all think about the NBA implementing this? drawing blood from all players before everygame? assuming the costs are minimal and the time required is minimal as well

#143 vlaurelio, Dec 27, 2009
MiddleMan Contributing Member

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http://sports.yahoo.com/box/news;_y...=yhoo&type=lgns

Irony reigns if Pacquiao-Malignaggi is made

Malignaggi, who re-entered the world title picture by defeating Juan Diaz in a rematch earlier this month, spoke out vigorously recently, using an interview with Boxing Truth Radio to publicly insinuate that Pacquiao had taken performance-enhancing drugs.

So is Pacman going to sue Malignaggi??? :grin: :grin:

We need to merge.

#144 MiddleMan, Dec 27, 2009
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Rokkit said:

What's wrong with immediately after the fight?
Click to expand...

because after the fight the outcome of the fight has been determined.

#145 MadMax, Dec 27, 2009
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MiddleMan said:

http://sports.yahoo.com/box/news;_y...=yhoo&type=lgns

Irony reigns if Pacquiao-Malignaggi is made

Malignaggi, who re-entered the world title picture by defeating Juan Diaz in a rematch earlier this month, spoke out vigorously recently, using an interview with Boxing Truth Radio to publicly insinuate that Pacquiao had taken performance-enhancing drugs.

So is Pacman going to sue Malignaggi??? :grin: :grin:

We need to merge.
Click to expand...

Wait...Paulie is who Pac Man would fight?? seriously?? Mayweather.....OR PAULIE!!?? :grin:

Zero integrity if ultimately he fights a fighter who actually accused him of using steroids...the whole, "manny is really mad at mayweather for all of this" loses all steam when he takes a fight against Paulie. Give me a break.

#146 MadMax, Dec 27, 2009
Coach AI Contributing Member

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MadMax said:

because after the fight the outcome of the fight has been determined.
Click to expand...

I'm talking about for determining whether or not Pacquiao is using. Would that show up in those results?

If the question is whether or not he is cheating, would that still give us the answer? What about the week of?

#147 Coach AI, Dec 27, 2009

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Rokkit said:

I'm talking about for determining whether or not Pacquiao is using. Would that show up in those results?

If the question is whether or not he is cheating, would that still give us the answer? What about the week of?
Click to expand...

What the hell good is it for Floyd to discover AFTER the fight that Manny was using???

Having the athletes schedule their own drug tests is ridiculous.

#148 MadMax, Dec 28, 2009
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MadMax said:

What the hell good is it for Floyd to discover AFTER the fight that Manny was using???

Having the athletes schedule their own drug tests is ridiculous.
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as I said, I understand that reasoning on terms of the outcome of the fight. If the question is whether Manny has 'something to hide', though, would immediately after the fight tell us that still.

Again, what about the week of? Would the results, if he's using, be just as informative say three days before as they would the day of?

These articles seem to suggest Pacquiao is agreeing to that.

In addition, it seems the reports are stating not that he wants to schedule it, just that he doesn't want it the 'day of'. It can still be 'random' under those terms.

If we can learn the same information, whether it's random or not the week of the fight really doesn't matter. IF however, whatever these substances do can be untraceable and effective THAT quickly, then it most definitely DOES matter.

I don't know how any of these 'PED's work, so it's an honest question. I have no interest in the BBS Manny Floyd pissing match.

#149 Coach AI, Dec 28, 2009
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#150 Harrisment, Dec 28, 2009
MadMax Contributing Member

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Rokkit said:

as I said, I understand that reasoning on terms of the outcome of the fight. If the question is whether Manny has 'something to hide', though, would immediately after the fight tell us that still.

Again, what about the week of? Would the results, if he's using, be just as informative say three days before as they would the day of?

These articles seem to suggest Pacquiao is agreeing to that.

In addition, it seems the reports are stating not that he wants to schedule it, just that he doesn't want it the 'day of'. It can still be 'random' under those terms.

If we can learn the same information, whether it's random or not the week of the fight really doesn't matter. IF however, whatever these substances do can be untraceable and effective THAT quickly, then it most definitely DOES matter.

I don't know how any of these 'PED's work, so it's an honest question. I have no interest in the BBS Manny Floyd pissing match.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone should have a problem with a fight of this magnitude adopting the same standards for testing which currently exists for Olympic athletes. We're talking about drawing out a tablespoon full of blood. This is ridiculous. Fight, already!

#151 MadMax, Dec 28, 2009
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MadMax said:

I don't think anyone should have a problem with a fight of this magnitude adopting the same standards for testing which currently exists for Olympic athletes. We're talking about drawing out a tablespoon full of blood. This is ridiculous. Fight, already!
Click to expand...

Freddie Roach's reply from an LA Times Blog

Roach said his concern has nothing to do with hiding anything.

"Giving blood right before the fight could be like having sex right before the fight," Roach said. "It’s 100% mental. If it’s in your head that it weakens you, then it will weaken you."

Roach extended an olive branch to the riff, saying he would allow Pacquiao to give a blood sample one week before the fight, but no closer than three days before the first bell.
Click to expand...

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2009/12/mayweather-pacquiao-camps-argue-drugtesting-points.html

I agree they should just fight already...

#152 SlvrBtl, Dec 28, 2009
rockmanslim Member

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MadMax said:

I don't think anyone should have a problem with a fight of this magnitude adopting the same standards for testing which currently exists for Olympic athletes. We're talking about drawing out a tablespoon full of blood. This is ridiculous. Fight, already!
Click to expand...

It is ridiculous. Shane Mosley is a proven cheat. He has admitted to using Balco roids as well as EPO. Why doesn't Al Haymon force Shane Mosley to undergo Olympic blood testing for his fight against one of Haymon's other clients, Andre Berto?

What about the last Super Bowl of boxing in 2007? Why no testing then? In that case Floyd would have actually had some sort of justification, as Oscar had previously tested positive for Lidocaine, a banned substance, in the past. Sure Lidocaine's not a steroid, but it's a banned suubstance.

OTOH Pac has never tested positive for PEDs, never been associated with any PED scandals, never tested positive for any banned substance, no proof whatsoever he's juicing, yet Haymon (among others in the Floyd camp) is demanding these tests? Makes no sense. Where's the consistency?

Just fight. Easy work for Floyd, right? The same Pacquiao that fought Cotto and Hatton, both fights which Floyd saw and declared Pacquiao to be "easy work," will be the same Pacquiao that Floyd will get. So what's the hold up?

#153 rockmanslim, Dec 28, 2009

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Don't know if everyones stickin with updates but thought I'd pass it along since i hadn't seen it, and just saw it on the ESPN ticker last night.

Mayweather moves, but fight no closer
Comment Email Print Share
By Dan Rafael
ESPN.com
Archive

There was movement by the Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Manny Pacquiao camps Saturday in the battle over how to handle drug testing for their tentative March 13 super fight, but the sides remain at a stalemate in an increasingly nasty negotiation that threatens a fight many predict would be the highest-grossing bout in history.

With all of the other points agreed to for the blockbuster HBO PPV welterweight title bout at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas, the drug testing protocol is the final sticking point.

Mayweather -- whose father, Floyd Mayweather Sr., has accused Pacquiao of using performance-enhancing substances without any proof -- had been demanding the inflexible Olympic-style testing conducted by the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency. That would mean Mayweather and Pacquiao would be subject to random blood and urine tests all the way up to the fight and immediately following it.

“

Schaefer I don't care who performs the tests as long as they are performed. That's our position. If this fight doesn't happen it's not because of Team Mayweather.
” -- Golden Boy Promotions CEO
Richard Schaefer

Pacquiao objected, in part, because he and his team want assurances that testing would be cut off at a predetermined time before the fight.

Mayweather changed his stance Saturday, moving off the hard line he had taken on using USADA as the testing agency.

"We are OK to move off USADA," Golden Boy Promotions CEO Richard Schaefer, who is representing Mayweather, told ESPN.com. "What we're saying, and what is important to us, is four things -- that the tests be random, that they include blood and urine and the time frame, meaning when do you stop the tests before the fight but know they will still be effective. Three of them we have agreed on -- random, blood and urine. So now it is a matter of the two sides working out the specifics of the cutoff date to assure it will still be effective."

Schaefer said those talks are taking place between Bruce Binkow, a high-level Golden Boy executive, and Todd duBoef, the president of Top Rank, Pacquiao's promoter.

"Todd and Bruce are trying to work out the specifics of the cutoff to assure the tests are still effective because we know that 30 days before is not effective," Schaefer said. "At 30 days, we might as well not even do it. We want to figure it out [the cutoff window] and I will give my recommendation to Team Mayweather, and they will be on board. USADA is the most recognized one, but if it's another one, like the Nevada commission, we don't really care. I don't care who performs the tests as long as they are performed. That's our position. If this fight doesn't happen it's not because of Team Mayweather."

Pacquiao agreed to unlimited urine testing and at least three blood tests, one in early January around the time of the kickoff news conference, one 30 days before the fight and another in the dressing room after the fight. When Mayweather was insisting on USADA, Top Rank chief Bob Arum said Pacquiao was willing to revisit the number of tests as long as they used some other agency, one with which they could negotiate the protocol and assure Pacquiao that he would at least not be tested in the middle of the night or in the few days leading up to the bout.

On Friday, Arum said their side was willing to sit down with Golden Boy and the Nevada State Athletic Commission to work out the details of the testing. Nevada only requires a prefight and a postfight urine test, although it could also test blood if the sides asked.

“

Arum Let the commission pick a date to stop taking blood. We trust the commission. Blood testing we think is unnecessary, but fine, we'll do it. But let the commission set the parameters.
” -- Top Rank chief and
Manny Pacquiao promotor Bob Arum

But on Saturday, Arum, speaking from his vacation in Cabo San Lucas, Mexico, backtracked, saying even the three tests were out the window -- unless Nevada asked for them, which Arum knows is unlikely.

"Our position is that since the fight would be in Nevada, let [the Mayweather side] make any petition it wants to the commission," Arum said. "We wash our hands of it. If the commission wants to take blood, fine. We don't care. But we're not going to pander to this petty [expletive] about how many days before the fight they can test and so forth. Who are they [Golden Boy] to tell Manny what he's supposed to do? How many times did [Golden Boy boss] Oscar De La Hoya ever give blood before a fight? I will not let this kid get pushed around.

"If they go to the commission and they ask for blood tests and the commission says yes, we will do whatever the commission says. The commission says blood testing, we'll do blood testing. We're not going to help it or oppose it. We're not going to give any credence to this nonsense. They want to sign a contract under the rules of the commission, fine. We don't want the fight if it means Manny is going to be pushed around. Let the commission tell us how many days in front they want blood. Let the commission pick a date to stop taking blood. We trust the commission. Blood testing we think is unnecessary, but fine, we'll do it. But let the commission set the parameters. Let Golden Boy approach the commission and say we want to take blood when he's walking into the ring. Whatever the commission wants to do we will support, but we won't take part in this exercise in nonsense, a procedure which is contrary to how boxing has been conducted in Nevada for 40 years. The burden is not on us to tell the commission what to do."

Arum's appeal for the commission to handle matters may be hollow because although it has protocols in place for random urine testing during training camps, it doesn't for blood testing, and to put it in place in time for a March 13 fight is unlikely, according to Keith Kizer, the executive director of the Nevada commission.

"We're very confident that urine tests by themselves cover everything that needs to be covered, but if the camps want to do additional testing through a third party they are welcome to, as long as they also adhere to commission rules," Kizer told ESPN.com. "Urine testing we could run with today. We could test their urine every day from now until March 13. But blood testing is trickier because we don't require it. If the commission wanted to change the rule it would have to be at a public meeting and, at the earliest, that would be early to mid-January. We have done some urine testing during training camps. We have those protocols in place. Blood testing is a different story.

"We'd have to put it on a commission agenda. Golden Boy or Top Rank or both could ask for blood testing and we'd look into it. Whether it would go anywhere, that's up to the commission to decide. As of now, there are no plans for a special commission meeting, nor has one been requested from either side."

The promoters and HBO hoped to have the fight signed and formally announced at a news conference the first week of January. If they can't iron out the particulars on blood testing until a commission meeting, likely around Jan. 13, it would make finalizing the bout unlikely until at least then.

Schaefer believes that Arum's position of leaving it up to the commission is him "moving the goal post."

"The pressure is on Pacquiao," he said. "They keep moving the goal post like they did with the $10 million weight penalty [if either fighter is over the contract maximum 147 pounds], which we agreed to. They didn't think we would accept that. When we did, they had to find something else to make into a problem. So now they're saying it's up to the commission instead of wanting to negotiate the drug testing with us. I don't want to hear that if the fight breaks up it was because of us. When they came to us with a $10 million weight penalty, they didn't expect us to say yes. They thought we'd say no. So when we said yes, they had to come up with something else. Now we're off USADA, and they are going to come and say only urine testing if that's what the commission says. It's really frustrating.

"We are making compromises. It's a two-way street. If they back off again, I will shut off my phone and spend the rest of the Christmas and New Year's time with my family, and good luck to all of these fools."

While Arum is making plans for an alternative fight for Pacquiao against former junior welterweight titlist Paulie Malignaggi -- who has also accused Pacquiao of using PEDs -- if the Mayweather fight falls apart, Schaefer said he hasn't discussed an alternative with Mayweather.

"We haven't discussed anybody else because the fight we want to bring to the fight fans is the one with Pacquiao," he said. "The focus is on getting Mayweather-Pacquiao done while Bob is making calls everywhere on the Malignaggi fight. That shows his focus is not on Mayweather.

"How ridiculous is that that Pacquiao would go and fight the guy who makes accusations that he uses performance-enhancing drugs instead of Mayweather [Jr.], who didn't make those accusations? Something is not right. I don't know how to explain it other than maybe Pacquiao doesn't want the Mayweather fight."
Click to expand...

#154 Rockets R' Us, Dec 28, 2009
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MadMax said:

I don't think anyone should have a problem with a fight of this magnitude adopting the same standards for testing which currently exists for Olympic athletes. We're talking about drawing out a tablespoon full of blood. This is ridiculous. Fight, already!
Click to expand...

That tablespoon full of blood, may weaken Pacman.

#155 MiddleMan, Dec 28, 2009
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MiddleMan said:

That tablespoon full of blood, may weaken Pacman.
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You and MadMax should get your head out of Mayweather's ass. Team Pacquiao have nothing to hide. They are not letting team Mayweather dictating and telling what to do. You can understand the p!ss off attitude of Team Pacquiao since they're being ridicule and their image being tarnished by this accusation.

Roach said his concern has nothing to do with hiding anything.

"Giving blood right before the fight could be like having sex right before the fight," Roach said. "It’s 100% mental. If it’s in your head that it weakens you, then it will weaken you."

Roach extended an olive branch to the riff, saying he would allow Pacquiao to give a blood sample one week before the fight, but no closer than three days before the first bell.
Click to expand...

Have you ever given blood and having a big fat needle stick into your vein and watching it pumping into a container? I've to give a blood sample at the end of every month for 8 months when I was on a medication. Doesn't matter how tough you are. If you see that red stuff pumping/squirting out of your vein you just want to faint. A nose bleed or a small cut isn't the same as as squirting blood.

#156 Cowboy_Bebop, Dec 28, 2009
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Cowboy_Bebop said:

You and MadMax should get your head out of Mayweather's ass. Team Pacquiao have nothing to hide. They are not letting team Mayweather dictating and telling what to do. You can understand the p!ss off attitude of Team Pacquiao since they're being ridicule and their image being tarnished by this accusation.

Have you ever given blood and having a big fat needle stick into your vein and watching it pumping into a container? I've to give a blood sample at the end of every month for 8 months when I was on a medication. Doesn't matter how tough you are. If you see that red stuff pumping/squirting out of your vein you just want to faint. A nose bleed or a small cut isn't the same as as squirting blood.
Click to expand...

Filipino?

#157 Nice Rollin, Dec 28, 2009
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Nice Rollin said:

Filipino?
Click to expand...

Wow, you are a r****d.

African American? How you like that?

#158 Cowboy_Bebop, Dec 28, 2009

MadMax Contributing Member

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Cowboy_Bebop said:

You and MadMax should get your head out of Mayweather's ass. Team Pacquiao have nothing to hide. They are not letting team Mayweather dictating and telling what to do. You can understand the p!ss off attitude of Team Pacquiao since they're being ridicule and their image being tarnished by this accusation.

Have you ever given blood and having a big fat needle stick into your vein and watching it pumping into a container? I've to give a blood sample at the end of every month for 8 months when I was on a medication. Doesn't matter how tough you are. If you see that red stuff pumping/squirting out of your vein you just want to faint. A nose bleed or a small cut isn't the same as as squirting blood.
Click to expand...

It's a vial of blood. Give me a break. Olympic athletes do it all the time. Yes, I donate blood...they take a pint, I think. This is a tablespoon. They could probably get it by simply pricking his finger.

Great..if he has nothing to hide, then do it...take the test. Instead he's insinuating he won't fight Floyd because he's so offended...but he will go fight Paulie who has called himi out directly suggesting he uses PED's. Awesome.

#159 MadMax, Dec 28, 2009
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What's funny is I can actually understand the reasons Manny would not want to give blood so close to a fight. On the other hand, I look at how much bigger he is now and the condition of his physique and I'm certain he has used anabolic steroids. His vascularity and the hardness of his physique scream the use of androgens. I don't know what's hot in the sporting underground in regards to PED but I would be willing to wager he is either taking winstrol or one of the newer drugs that are based on dihydrotestosterone.

#160 Dave_78, Dec 28, 2009

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